How Can You Tell If A Person Is Enlightened? (response To Leo's May 18 Insight)

[Leo Gura]

@Snick Yes, that's the right understanding. Even better when you can be conscious that Hitler is literally you. Then the compassion becomes real juicy.

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura I don't think its black and white. Like a computer program

if enlightened then you.contains_morals = false

else you.contains_morals = true

Surely having a natural desire to be moralistic is possible. Like enlightened people still have beliefs about things, and they do carry them out.

Life is a game, but that doesn't mean every enlightened person all of a sudden stops playing it, once they realize it.

If you realize the car in GTA 5 is just pixels on the screen, that doesn't mean you'll all of a sudden stop playing it and thinking its a car. 

And compassion is real. Really morals are just (at least originally) based on a way of dealing with one's natural tendencies for empathy and compassion.

[Prabhaker]

8 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

You can be moralistic and enlightened.

Buddha left his young wife, one day old son and old father, he was only son of his father, who was a king. 

After enlightenment he persuaded his children who belonged to a royal family, made them beggars to learn spirituality. 

Buddha ruined life of his family members.

[electroBeam]

2 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Buddha left his young wife, one day old son and old father, he was only son of his father, who was a king. 

After enlightenment he persuaded his children who belonged to a royal family, made them beggars to learn spirituality. 

Buddha ruined life of his family members.

Does that ultimately make someone happy though? Acting in that kind of way?

That's sounds like an act that would induce bad karma.

morals are based on a dualistic worldview, but isn't there a correlation between ruining someone's life and getting bad karma?

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam Yes, I said already that you are free to do whatever you want. Which means you can have morals. They just aren't grounded in anything.

All that having morals means is that you have made some choices about how you want to play the game of life. And you live out those choices. That's all. Nothing more. Enjoy your rules. Just don't expect other people to follow them. Why should they? You made them up for you. And they will make up the opposite ones for themselves.

[Guest Annetta]

@Prabhaker Damn, nowadays a man just goes out for a pack of smokes and never comes home.  

[AlwaysBeNice]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No reason at all! You can hit yourself on the head with a hammer just for shits and giggles, just to see what it's like.

You say 'no reason at all' yet then you name 'shits and giggles', or 'seeing what it's like'.

You are partly dodging the question with 'shits and giggles', too unspecific.

I used 'hitting yourself in the head with a hammer' in the context of rape and murder, so hitting yourself on the head violently, what cause would there be for that? 

'Just to see what it's like?'

Why? Be specific, what are they looking for?

Pain? The experience of a damaged body?

Why would they be doing that? Have you ever seen someone doing this who wasn't severely emotionally damaged and thus psychologically confused?

Edited May 24, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Prabhaker]

19 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

That's sounds like an act that would induce bad karma.

Buddha suffered due to his bad Karmas, his journey towards enlightenment was very difficult. 

Even after enlightenment , he was stoned and abused everywhere he went to spread his message.

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

there are some cultures in which rape is considered perfectly normal and appropriate

UPDATE: The Assam Rape Festival In India Begins This Week 

http://newsexaminer.net/opinion/rape-festival-india-begins/

[electroBeam]

@Prabhaker Well its probably wise not to ruin people's lives then?

[Prabhaker]

Just now, electroBeam said:

Well its probably wise not to ruin people's lives then?

Ruining life of his family members was a bad Karma but it was necessary to spread a message in the world. Sometimes we have to choose from lesser evil and greater evil.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Snick said:

Leo is hell more conscious then Hitler

You are wrong, if Leo has power like Hitler , he can kill more people. If Hitler had knowledge of spirituality like Leo, he would have become enlightened.

[Guest Annetta]

43 minutes ago, Fidelio said:

Have they meowed in happiness lately?

Yep.  One of them has decided to sleep on top of me at night since I have returned home.  I guess 10 days being gone was too long.

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, Snick said:

If a body-mind lives a selfless life, a compassionate life. That body-mind should not adopt the idea he is Hitler! He is not! He is better then that! 

You are not a Hitler only because you are powerless, all you morality is a social politics, so that you can adjust in society. You are champion of morality  not because you are aware , conscious like a Buddha.

[Prabhaker]

6 minutes ago, Snick said:

I talk about the easy misunderstanding enlightenment debate leads to. 

Enlightenment can't be understood, even message given by a Buddha, a Jesus is misunderstood. All enlightened masters have failed , all religions have failed because we can't understand. 

Enlightenment debate can lead to misunderstanding and understanding both, it all depends on you. 

[SOUL]

Yup, bullshit.... absolute bullshit.... infinite absolute bullshit.

[Visitor]

The enlightened are enlightened because they take things lightly.

[sweater]

Life is fucked. Its not all going to be alright. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Fidelio said:

And an enlightened person wouldn't rape because there is no desire to harm another; in fact the thought of causing harm is distasteful, and this reaction is so strong some can become physically sick at just the thought of it. Culture and "social norms" are irrelevant as these things are universal.

This is just silly. You're using kindergarten egoic thinking here.

Ain't none of your human values universal. They aren't even planet-wide. They aren't even species-wide. They aren't even city-wide. They aren't even family-wide.

Just because you become physically sick at rape, doesn't mean others do.

You're really just speaking of yourself. But deluding yourself into believing you're speaking for the whole universe! It's insane!

You don't kill ants because you have a desire to hurt ants. You simply kill ants as a by-product of being you. Likewise with rape. It's not about desiring to hurt others. It's about being a self. Your self happens to not like rape. Other selves do.

Not sure how you intend to become enlightened clinging to all your human desires like that.

[Natasha]

On 5/24/2017 at 11:52 AM, abrakamowse said:

@Snick  what is doubt? I know is a thought, but what generates it?

Doubt is questioning the validity of the currently held knowledge/belief in the light of the new information/experience. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Natasha