How Can You Tell If A Person Is Enlightened? (response To Leo's May 18 Insight)

[WelcometoReality]

@Leo Gura What you say makes perfect sense from an awakened minds perspective. From an awakened hearts perspective it does not.

I have a hard time seeing how gassing jews and raping little children is based on love and kindness. Maybe there is more to the picture than that absolute perspective of yours?

[Prabhaker]

7 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

Yes you can't stop someone suffering psychologically, but you will not intentionally inflict anymore damage, while knowing it will bring suffering. 

Matthew 10:34-36 

 Jesus said “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. "

 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

[Leo Gura]

Hehe... You guys are really struggling to grasp this. Good. It's a big hidden obstacle for you on this path.

Enlightenment = total nihilism. It's so nihilistic it makes ordinary nihilism look like child's play. Nietzsche would be shitting his pants.

Nihilism goes full circle into absolute love. Only when nothing has meaning or value, can everything be equally valued = unconditional love.

This is deep stuff. You gotta think more existentially about it all.

Relativism goes full-circle into absolutism. It's all absolutely relative! Which is why it's all love.

As soon as you start to assign values, you've kill it. You've dropped into duality. And you better believe you will suffer for that.

The only way unconditional love is possible is through total equality, otherwise known as, total nihilism. As soon as you say that one thing is more important or valuable than another, you've killed it. You've dropped into conditional love. God makes no distinctions with it's love. Which is why you're a mere human. God's flavor of love is a bit too radical for you. So you got the watered down, self-biased version. Your love is centered around your petty human valuations. But God don't give a shit about any of that. It loves to infinity.

[Orange]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Nihilism goes full circle into absolute love. Only when nothing have value, can everything be equally valued = unconditional love.

This is deep stuff. You gotta think more existentially about it all.

have you reached that place yourself? Of unconditional love? 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Orange said:

have you reached that place yourself? Of unconditional love? 

Not even close. But at least I understand it conceptually. And I have experienced it for tiny whiles.

A lot of folks here seem to be adamantly opposed to the mere idea of it. Which is a problem because it's gonna hold you back. You're clinging to paradigms of Judeo-Christian morality. That's not gonna fly in this work.

I want you to grasp the full-Monty! Absolute groundlessness! The core of all of reality. The deepest essence of God. It's a beautiful thing to behold. It will make you so humble that you won't want to step on a fly.

And yet, at the same time, you'll swat that fly to death in the blink of an eye when it annoys you.

Such is life. Twisted to perfection.

[Orange]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not even close. But at least I understand it conceptually.

A lot of folks here seem to be adamantly opposed to the mere idea of it.

ok 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Orange

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura Morality is not relative. How can morality be relative when it is based in empathy. This is where the the golden rule comes from. Basically instead of changing our actions to line up with our morals, we change our perspective to nonduality so we can justify them. Seems too self-centered and egotistical. Also i didnt see Jesus kill and then justify his actions with this nihilistic view. If something goes against self agenda it is the mere idea of action. What is more threatening to the individual, to bone up and line up his actions to his values and morals or to adopt a nihilistic paradigm that allows him to do whatever he wants? If non duality is so perfect, the enlightened ones wouldn't mind if someone tried to kill them. At the end of the day it would save some children from unessecary rape

Edited May 24, 2017 by Socrates

[cetus]

"It's Judgment that defeats us"

Edited May 24, 2017 by cetus56

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

Raping, or torturing a person is not the same as slapping someone across the face. A Zen master slaps you across the face hard to disprove your point, which is to your benefit. Can you say the same thing about raping, or torturing someone? Obviously not.

Yes I am making distinctions, and they are VERY important. You are going a very dangerous, nihilistic route here. You are not making any distinction between intentional and not intentional. Conscious and unconscious behavior. INTENT is the key here. Will you intentionally crush thousands of insects with your shoes? Obviously not.

So your ego thinks. There's nothing obvious here at all. Those are all RELATIVE EGOIC judgments.

All distinctions are groundless. That is the essence of reality and liberation.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Leo Gura]

Guys, everything you're talking about is egoic human stuff! That's all well and good for life as a human, but it has nothing to do with Truth and enlightenment.

You're totally underestimating how fucking radical enlightenment is. It's the total end of your life and reality. TOTAL! TOTAL, TOTAL, TOTAL. Nothing you cling to will survive. And all this stuff you're talking about is monkey-mind human bullshit. Investigate for yourselves.

Please don't take my word for any of this. You must derive these insights for yourselves. This is not a belief system.

[Orange]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Guys, everything you're talking about is egoic human stuff! That's all well and good for life as a human, but it has nothing to do with Truth and enlightenment.

You're totally underestimating how fucking radical enlightenment is. It's the total end of your life and reality. TOTAL! TOTAL, TOTAL, TOTAL.

 

 

Total annihilatiooooon 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Orange

[Dodo]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Pierre No. That cannot help at all. Value doesn't exist. Neither does hierarchy.

Nonduality means:

• No values
• No heirarchies
• No parts
• No meanings
• No good/evil
• No stories
• No levels of importance
• No immorality

It's utterly groundless. To infinity.

Glass half full: It's grounded on nothingness ?

[Leo Gura]

@Dodo The glass of Nothingness is so full it's infinitely overflowing

More than your heart can ever stand.

[Leo Gura]

@unknownworld Yes you can say the same. Which is why wise people don't debate but self-inquire.

And the really wise ones don't bring this topic up in public at all. I have said too much.

The wonders of God shall remain known only to itself.

[AlwaysBeNice]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@unknownworld Enlightenment is realizing all judgments are just stories.

Absurd? Not at all. Plenty of enlightened gurus and monks commit rape. Happens very often. Buddhist monks get raped by other Buddhist monks all the time! They will drag little boy monks out of their beds at night and rape them. Common practice in the East. Many famous gurus have sexually exploited their disciples. Of course. This should be expected.

I'd doubt their enlightened, in fact, I'm quite sure it's impossible.

Just as truly enlightened beings do not just start acting nonsensical, like hitting themselves on the head with a hammer repeatedly, because it fucking hurts, as they still prefer pleasure over pain.

The enlightened knows himself to be others, just as it wouldn't hurt it self, it doesn't hurt the other.

-

As for your dubious claims, what sources are you basing them on?

Edited May 24, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Socrates said:

If non duality is so perfect, the enlightened ones wouldn't mind if someone tried to kill them.

Hehe, they cannot be killed! They are literally immortal for all of eternity.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

You are making this whole "enlightenment" thing into a very complicated, unreachable thing. A lot of "wise" spiritual teachers mention that it is not some magical or crazy thing, it is a simple realization of the true nature of yourself, nothing more. Consider questioning your beliefs, concepts, and ideas of what enlightenment really is.

I'm making it complicated? You're the one making all those complicated distinctions and rules about right and wrong.

My version is extremely simple: Absolute Infinite Nothingness. Total freedom. Anything goes.

It couldn't be simpler or more beautiful.

[Dodo]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Dodo The glass of Nothingness is so full it's infinitely overflowing

More than your heart can ever stand.

Love can be suffocating  

[Pierre]

@unknownworld Man, I guess we still have a long way to go before we reach Leo's enchanted Realm, where children's rape is not a problem...

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Pierre said:

@unknownworld Man, I guess we still have a long way to go before we reach Leo's enchanted Realm, where children's rape is not a problem...

What is is. Even Isis are what is. One cannot reach the promise land without radically accepting the reality of the situation.

What is true is what is. Before we make judgementa of Good or Bad, the truth is already there.

The truth can be Good and the truth can be Bad. But are we only interested in the truth we label as good here or are we interested in the entire truth?