Met An Awakened Man Today, These Were The Most Important Things He Said

[AlwaysBeNice]

I witnessed an amazing satsang today, which for me had a much greater effect than ever watching them online, because you see the living example in front of you, which is giving you more trust and willingness to follow the instructions diligently.

Summarized:

-You are NOT suppose to be okay with your suffering, it's natural to not want it, it's real intelligence to see your life is not working, don't judge it, use your frustration.

- So seek as hard as you can (he said this in the context of showing you you cannot be found in your objects of perception, because what ever you focus on or feel, the feeling is not feeling itself, YOU are feeling it, YOU are feeling your body parts/sensations through your shining your attention on them).

- Spirituality and advaita are often a big trap for the ego (this was eye opening and new for me, despite having seen a lot of satsangs):

People often use the knowledge of the absolute (I am not the body, nor my thoughts, emotions etc.) and hang out in the 'blissful consciousness' to escape! And meanwhile not reach liberation.

'My buttons are getting pushed? Nah, that's not me, let me distance myself from it, I am the observer.'

'let me become just the observer of it', big trap! That's solidifying the split mind, putting you farther away and creating a subtle spiritual ego.

No, see it and feel it all! (Probably bit by bit, practice this, you can see it will simply open up and that contrary to the feeling it's not scary at all to allow it! These are your gifts).

You will get better at this and situations that normally bother you because you are triggered will now become more easeful opportunities, allowing you to live more freely already.

Also observe how with the feeling there often is a belief attached to feeling: 'I am not suppose to be angry' 'I am not suppose to cry', stay attentive to these beliefs when feeling your feelings and don't look through them anymore. 

Becoming awake is about with becoming true to yourself, become very very intimate with yourself, and when you can be really open to yourself, that way life can actually open up to you.

- Ego and even identification with it are not bad, they are great gifts!

Just partial identification, of not knowing who you also and really are, is creating the nightmare.

You solve it by going a step further than it, not by suppressing them.

- You can't awaken yourself.

It will happen by it's own accord, you just do your best opening up, becoming as honest and open as you can, and when you are ready, the ego will seen through once and for all and you will be in a different world. Awoken, free, no more 'losing it'. 

I like how he kept using the word gift, humorously at the end he mentioned someone saying to him:

'I didn't chose this life..'

No. It's a gift.  

It's a dutch teacher, he had been searching seriously from when he was 14, he's like 64 now, Ad Oostendorp is his name, but yeah, Dutch. Great guy though.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Yup, all good insights.

[Guest username]

5 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

 

1.- Ego and even identification with it are not bad, they are great gifts!

2.Just partial identification, of not knowing who you also and really are, is creating the nightmare.

3. You solve it by going a step further than it, not by suppressing them.

4. - You can't awaken yourself.

 

 

Could you explain these points a little more?  I'm not getting it.

On the first one, is he saying that ego is not bad so we don't get caught up in demonizing it, or is he saying we should try to identify with the ego, even while pursuing enlightenment?

What's the consequence of partial identification?  How is that a nightmare as to full identification?

I think I just that third one, but I'm not entirely sure.

Could you explain what he meant on the fourth one?

[AlwaysBeNice]

9 hours ago, username said:

Could you explain these points a little more?  I'm not getting it.

On the first one, is he saying that ego is not bad so we don't get caught up in demonizing it, or is he saying we should try to identify with the ego, even while pursuing enlightenment?

What's the consequence of partial identification?  How is that a nightmare as to full identification?

I think I just that third one, but I'm not entirely sure.

Could you explain what he meant on the fourth one?

You will always be identified with your ego automatically (unless you are in Samadhi), if someone would call your name, you would turn around.

Partial identification with just the body/persona causes bondage, especially if the bondage includes a lot of cultural suppression, you will probably be caught up in fear and craving/being attached to temporary things.

 if you know you are everything/nothing playing a someone, you don't have to worry about others judging you, you don't have to worry about death (though you can be careful), you know the universe supports your positive actions. 

It's like if you would be playing World of Warcraft and thinking you are your character, you might never even get past the tutorial area

-About the 4th point of 'awakening will happen by it's own accord'

 it will just happen to you, you can't do it.

 He said the Samadhi's and becoming true to the personal self are preliminary steps and are not the same as awakening in his definition, that final thing will just happen some day after these preliminary stages, but he wouldn't go into detail because that would just be for you to experience.

 

[Guest username]

7 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

You will always be identified with your ego automatically (unless you are in Samadhi), if someone would call your name, you would turn around.

I see, so by identifying, he wasn't saying that you will always think you're this thing, just that the ego and concept of indentity will always be there and functioning for the body's purposes. An enlightened person knows they are not the body, but that doesn't mean the knowledge of the ego's perspective ceases to be. In other words, he's not using identified as a way of saying "I literally think this is me."  Correct me if I still don't understand.

7 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Partial identification with just the body/persona causes bondage, especially if the bondage includes a lot of cultural suppression, you will probably be caught up in fear and craving/being attached to temporary things.

See, I'm still confused here. Wouldn't that also be the case for complete identification?

7 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

 if you know you are everything/nothing playing a someone, you don't have to worry about others judging you, you don't have to worry about death (though you can be careful), you know the universe supports your positive actions. 

It's like if you would be playing World of Warcraft and thinking you are your character, you might never even get past the tutorial area

I see. That's what I thought; he was saying that instead of suppressing your tendencies, higher consciousness will naturally make you more vulnerable and authentic. Am I right on this one?

 

7 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

-About the 4th point of 'awakening will happen by it's own accord'

 it will just happen to you, you can't do it.

 He said the Samadhi's and becoming true to the personal self are preliminary steps and are not the same as awakening in his definition, that final thing will just happen some day after these preliminary stages, but he wouldn't go into detail because that would just be for you to experience.

 

Right, that's how I thought it worked. I was confused because I thought he was suggesting that there was nothing you could do to facilitate the experience (like a spiritual practice) or that you needed a guru or something. It makes more sense if I go back and read what you said right after in the OP.

[Shanmugam]

Does that awakened person have a name? 

[AlwaysBeNice]

47 minutes ago, username said:

I see, so by identifying, he wasn't saying that you will always think you're this thing, just that the ego and concept of indentity will always be there and functioning for the body's purposes. An enlightened person knows they are not the body, but that doesn't mean the knowledge of the ego's perspective ceases to be. In other words, he's not using identified as a way of saying "I literally think this is me."  Correct me if I still don't understand.

Yeah, the body mind are just a part of him, an extension. I wouldn't say it's just for the body purposes, it's a gift for you to play as.

See, I'm still confused here. Wouldn't that also be the case for complete identification?

I don't think so, because you play for the play of it, not to get something.

He said he experienced could fear (though it in a dream), but that even that was exciting because it's lost it's grip on him.

 I see. That's what I thought; he was saying that instead of suppressing your tendencies, higher consciousness will naturally make you more vulnerable and authentic. Am I right on this one?

Right, that's how I thought it worked. I was confused because I thought he was suggesting that there was nothing you could do to facilitate the experience (like a spiritual practice) or that you needed a guru or something. It makes more sense if I go back and read what you said right after in the OP.

Awakening will happen to you when you are ready, simply because you desire it.

What I got from it in terms of practice: 

- Just know that you can't find yourself outside of you: -everything was gone in deep sleep but not you.

-Observe how when you feel something, it's happening to YOU, just what you are. That's your center, that's good to be in, just as Ramana said, feel the I.

- He gave as homework, as something to do: when you imagine or experience scary scenarios, your body tenses in some places, practice feeling those, keep sniffing at them.

And he mentioned Adyashanti, and that someone said to Adya: if you really want to awaken, you have to go at it full force.

We also did a very simple exercise,  wherein you close your eyes and rub your hands, and you just notice that that hands are not feeling it, the feeling is not feeling, but very simple: YOU are feeling it. And just as you can observe you are not your hands, you can observe the whole body and all sensations that way.

 

4 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Does that awakened person have a name? 

Yeah, Ad Oostendorp as mentioned in the post.  But he's dutch.

Edited May 22, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Shanmugam]

sorry, Didn't notice his name in the last line... 

[zazed]

Lovely insights, thank you for sharing  

On 5/21/2017 at 7:54 PM, AlwaysBeNice said:

'My buttons are getting pushed? Nah, that's not me, let me distance myself from it, I am the observer.'

'let me become just the observer of it', big trap! That's solidifying the split mind, putting you farther away and creating a subtle spiritual ego.

No, see it and feel it all! (Probably bit by bit, practice this, you can see it will simply open up and that contrary to the feeling it's not scary at all to allow it! These are your gifts).

This is a big trap indeed. If you think "That's not me, let me distance myself from it", you are in fact not referring to "me as self" but to thought stories.
I find it helpful to have a curiosity about it, to examine the mind, to shed light upon its inner workings. Although it is still not "self" that does the understanding within this awareness, it is helpful for "growth" of the non-self. This is helpful because the illusion of non-self being self has grown out of control with most people.

Basically, there is no reason to think anything about anything, everything just is. Buttons being pushed just is, being experiences it. It has no purpose, it requires no effort, there is no solution to it, nor is there a need for a solution.

[Guest username]

@AlwaysBeNice Okay, so on the point of complete identification, that means just being immersed in the experience of life, right?  I'm just getting hung up on the language so I need to clarify.  

In his terms, partial identification would be when you're lacking in inner integrity and no really living life. When I normally think of complete identification with the ego, I think of being deeply unconscious, the complete opposite of non-dual awareness. He's saying that you can completely identify with the ego while having non-dual awareness. So in a sense, it may not be identification with the ego so much as it is being aware of what the ego is and choosing to live fully.

I think I've got it down. Correct me if I'm still not getting it.

[zazed]

6 minutes ago, username said:

When I normally think of complete identification with the ego, I think of being deeply unconscious, the complete opposite of non-dual awareness.

The ego is just thought, especially disturbing thoughts, that you think are your identity.
thought or ego is just a part of you. like your hand, or your feet. If you cut of your feet, you don't cease to exist, so you are not your feet. For the ego it's the same, but you can't really physically cut of your ego thoughts, so it's harder to realize this.

Thought fighting thought is what OP warned about. If you think yourself around your thoughts, like battling some negative thought with positive affirmations. Then you are reinforcing the ego, as OP said:

On 5/21/2017 at 7:54 PM, AlwaysBeNice said:

'My buttons are getting pushed? Nah, that's not me, let me distance myself from it, I am the observer.'

If you do this, then you are creating a story within yourself, that your imagined self is an observer. There actually is an observer, but it will never think a single thought. So your ego tells a story, the story it is actually the observer. This may bring the illusion of spiritual bliss even, and can greatly boost confidence, but it is a lie that will sooner or later break.

This is why thought should never battle with mind. Unwelcome thought is irrelevant, it requires no address, it just is.

[Guest username]

3 minutes ago, zazed said:

The ego is just thought, especially disturbing thoughts, that you think are your identity.
thought or ego is just a part of you. like your hand, or your feet. If you cut of your feet, you don't cease to exist, so you are not your feet. For the ego it's the same, but you can't really physically cut of your ego thoughts, so it's harder to realize this.

Thought fighting thought is what OP warned about. If you think yourself around your thoughts, like battling some negative thought with positive affirmations. Then you are reinforcing the ego, as OP said:

If you do this, then you are creating a story within yourself, that your imagined self is an observer. There actually is an observer, but it will never think a single thought. So your ego tells a story, the story it is actually the observer. This may bring the illusion of spiritual bliss even, and can greatly boost confidence, but it is a lie that will sooner or later break.

This is why thought should never battle with mind. Unwelcome thought is irrelevant, it requires no address, it just is.

Thank you, I'm aware of that though; the thing that confused me is what was meant here by complete identification with the ego. I'm still sort of stuck what he meant by that.

[AlwaysBeNice]

3 hours ago, zazed said:

If you do this, then you are creating a story within yourself, that your imagined self is an observer. There actually is an observer, but it will never think a single thought. So your ego tells a story, the story it is actually the observer. This may bring the illusion of spiritual bliss even, and can greatly boost confidence, but it is a lie that will sooner or later break.

This is why thought should never battle with mind. Unwelcome thought is irrelevant, it requires no address, it just is.

Yes. Some take on 'the observer role', or you focus on spaciousness, but meanwhile you still don't do anything about emotional suppression.

I think this can an okay or even necessary stage for some time.

But the problem occurs when the suppression of the personal self actually becomes believed to the truly spiritual thing: becomes an addiction; a crutch and stagnates you.

The ego was already used to denying the self, but now, even perhaps even worse, it does so under the supposed the spiritual mindset of: 'not me, not me, not me'.

Someone might actually mistake their escapism for some sort of ultimate stage and might even try to seem like a teacher of the highest regard, not so rare according to Ad and I see the same, I think this is case for some of the most popular advaita teacher even, it's a nice easy escape mindset, which is of course appealing to the masses. x)

Edited May 22, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Guest username]

@AlwaysBeNice Man, that's a really subtle insight. I've never realized that I might have been subtly identifying with the mindset that accompanies spiritual work rather than keeping in perspective that the work itself is only a tool to facilitate realization of the Truth.

[Toby]

2 hours ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

I think this is case for some of the most popular advaita teacher even

Names please.

[AlwaysBeNice]

I was thinking of Mooji given I remembered so much of an emphasis on being the watcher, maybe in a bit of a dissociating way.. which isn't bad advice per se but probably a bit incomplete, and that something looked off at times and him making a few statements that put me off  that went something along the lines of: 'If you don't get this, go back to vipassana or something' (can't properly remember the part before the comma) and responding to a kundalini awakening of someone and saying: 'oh dear, that's childs play', whereas vipasanna is so legit and kundalini is I think the feminine aspect of awakening and from what I understand an be enormous even in the light of no-self.

But actually, I don't know and I am not really in the position to make such a statement to begin with and when I look at him just now I see a very kind present open being, pointing to being in the heart and reaching massive amounts of people, seems good.

But maybe there is more. ^ ^

Edited May 23, 2017 by AlwaysBeNice

[Shin]

How did you know he was enlightened ?

[AlwaysBeNice]

4 hours ago, Shin said:

How did you know he was enlightened ?

Aside from him being an incredibly happy giddy alive guy, with a very penetrating but child like gaze, I can see he has zero conditioned response rate to any one, he is fully being himself and joyfully playing his character.

But the thing that impressed deeply from the start was reading his story, he had been seeking seriously from when he was 14, he had gone through multiple times of thinking he had become enlightened.

BELOW I'VE CONDENSED THE STORY: SPOILER!!
 

It might be cooler to read the full story with google translate: www.adsang.nl/mijn-verhaal/

condensed:

But even towards the end, decades into it, he didn't resolve his ego completely, and at some point it was about to be absorbed, but he still couldn't let go completely, causing intense panic and depressions, he even made himself believe all the spirituality was just fake, he even felt sorry for all the masters he'd seen and believed for they too were just fooling themselves. 

As deep states of peace and bliss that he had experienced came and go, and yet, he still had no freedom!

But through the unfold mend of the path eventually grace dissolved all his attachment, it was a very intimate process, which eventually brought full awakening and he was 'Overflowing with gratitiude'.

And the thing that also helped me have a lot of faith in him was the fact that I had the most consistent high amount of synchronicities when listening to his satsangs.

 

[Nahm]

When a wave knows it is the ocean, it can truly be a wave.