Serious Family Problems

[isabel]

Hi, my mother and my brother both have extreme anger and jealousy issues and my brother is a heroin addict on top of that. I've been severely traumatized by their actions over and over again for my whole life. Though for the last five years or so things have become much better since I have cut them completely out of my life except for phone calls (I answer when they call but never call them, other than that, no contact.)

It was working until my brother decided it wasn't and screamed and screamed at me on the phone then called back and screamed on my answering service. Sigh.

Anyway, my question is should I even try to make either of them understand what they've done to me? Should I try to point out anything? Or will it be a waste of my time? Should I just try to forgive and forget? Would love to, but I would also love it if they could just see what they're doing and what they've done.

Thanks!

[solo]

It sounds like you want a relationship with your mother and brother, but are hesitant because of how they've behaved towards you in the past.

At this point, what have you got to lose? I think you would regret not saying anything and just continuing on with the phone calls as you have been. But consider this: past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. If you've brought up these issues in the past, they may react in a similar manner as they did before. They may frame it as if you are making personal attacks against them, which will undoubtedly cause them to misinterpret why you are bringing it up in the first place.

I believe that half of any solution lies in defining the problem, and from what you've written, the problem you are trying to solve is to put an end to the dysfunctional nature of these relationships. We tend to judge others by their actions, while we judge ourselves by our intentions. If you were to try and bring up the pain they've caused, begin by assessing the root of their intent. For example, by exhibiting anger and jealousy towards you (the action), perhaps their intent was to protect themselves from becoming vulnerable, for in the past they've learned that vulnerability causes them to feel pain. It's almost like a "get them before they get me" mentality.

So my advice is that you should bring up these issues, but be very careful with when and how you bring them up. Really think about their intent and how this made you feel inside. Plan as to how you can gently bring it up with the goal of ending the dysfunction in the relationship. And if you call them while they are in an unhealthy state of mind, hold off and wait for a more appropriate time to bring up such a sensitive topic. 

I hope this made sense and I wish you the best of luck.

[DJB]

Hello Isabel,

It's called "no contact" for a reason. There is no way that you can change dysfunctional or mentally ill family members. You can only change yourself, build up your own self-esteem and heal the wounded parts of yourself caused by an emotionally abusive childhood. The more you leave open opportunities for family members to continue abusing you, the more you will react and the more they will feed on your reactions getting what they need to feed their own addictions. Codependence is an addiction. Codependents are actually addicted to being hurt by family members. We keep thinking they will change if only we try harder. This is mental illness. We are trying to rationalise the irrational, doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result each time.

I have cut off all contact with emotionally abusive family members because I now know that no matter how much they try to show me they have changed, it is an act to hook me back into their toxic world of emotional supply. I'm therefore abusing myself if I fall back into that pattern. I suggest changing your number.

Also, you will NEVER get emotionally abusive people to own up to their abuse of you or others. They will ALWAYS find a way to blame you or some other external factor. They will never take responsiblity for their actions. They are so damaged and broken they can't. It is also better to thank them rather than forgive them (forgive them for what? Being mentally ill?) They are actually "angels in disguise" for they are poking at the wounded parts of ourselves that we have not dealt with or learned to heal. Buddhists call these people "bad Buddhas". They won't go away or stop doing what they are doing until we have learned that we do not need them in our lives and learn how to heal ourselves from the inside out (as Leo says).

I hope this helps,

Darren

P.S. Also check out Melanie Tonia Evans' YouTube videos on this stuff.

[Baby]

Wow, I'm really sorry you are going through this... I ppersonally know how tough it can be. 

I think we choose our family before hand... I think that when it becomes poisonous, it is up to us to decide if is best for our personal growth to keep relationship going or not. "What are you getting from this relationship?" I'd all you get is negativity... I have not spoken to my mother in over 20 yrs.... I did the same for my father and currently my sister... It is hard... I miss my family, I tried to hold on... At the end of the day I found myself confirming, agreeing, walking on eggshells to keep that relationship... Which it meant keeping my true self from being... To high a cost. They will grow, they have done what they are supposed to. It is all good. Acceptance is the key. Either way, play your role. are you here to add to the drama, feed the egos... Or awaken?

[isabel]

Thanks you guys! I'm almost crying reading these answers, they are so in tune with what I am going through with this.

Quote

We keep thinking they will change if only we try harder. This is mental illness. We are trying to rationalise the irrational, doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result each time.

Exactly! I am doing that. I keep thinking if I could just get through, I'll be nicer, I will try harder, I'll prove that I am not what they think I am (I'm the bad one, according to them).

Anyway, thanks again, I'm so glad this forum opened, I will be back to read these answers again and think some more. Feeling better today!

[Kelley White]

17 hours ago, isabel said:

Hi, my mother and my brother both have extreme anger and jealousy issues and my brother is a heroin addict on top of that. I've been severely traumatized by their actions over and over again for my whole life. Though for the last five years or so things have become much better since I have cut them completely out of my life except for phone calls (I answer when they call but never call them, other than that, no contact.)

It was working until my brother decided it wasn't and screamed and screamed at me on the phone then called back and screamed on my answering service. Sigh.

Anyway, my question is should I even try to make either of them understand what they've done to me? Should I try to point out anything? Or will it be a waste of my time? Should I just try to forgive and forget? Would love to, but I would also love it if they could just see what they're doing and what they've done.

Thanks!

The only thing I can share with you are experiences from my life.

I'm mentally ill.  At one time I was an addict.  I was a medically induced addict who went on to pursue opiates to get through a very challenging traumatic emotional event in my life.   I understand this, and I am learning to forgive me for causing harm to me and to others.   I am not that same person anymore.  I've changed.  People can change.  Its are they willing to change?  When they do change?  Are we willing to let go of their past and embrace their change?  That is a trust issue.

I have some children who feel I caused the harm and they prefer to not have a relationship with me, to trust me.   They think of the me I was, not the me I am now.   That is a logical consequence of my actions as an addict.

While this causes me some pain?  I understand they do not at this time seek resolution, and I respect that they are strong enough to say, "You are toxic to me, so I choose to care for me." 

In some strange way, it lets me know that despite any mistakes I made as a mother?  I imparted to them a strong enough sense of self, they would do what is in their highest and best interest.  I broke a generational pattern.  

They may or may not ever choose to decide to seek resolution.  I choose to accept that.  I love them and just want what is best for them.  Right now being around me is not best for them.  That's okay. There are times I fight it.  I suffer then.  I suffer from the "family should versus my family is... "

What is real?  I have other young people who do value me and I can focus on helping them or missing an illusion of what should be.   (Trust me, I do this often. LOL)

I have a challenging relationship with my mom.  Sometimes we did not communicate.  Some of those times, she felt I was toxic; some of those times, I felt she was toxic.  Now we've grown and we have a wonderful email relationship.  We don't expect one another to talk on the phone, we might trigger one another in real time and react.  Instead we email so we can take time and pause, really think before responding.  As a result, we are now very close.   Some folks would think this an odd relationship.  For us it works.  Who cares what someone else thinks it should look like?

You can only effectively communicate with someone capable of effective communication.  

When they don't communicate effectively, when they don't respect boundaries then I have to agree, no contact and keeping yourself healthy and safe seems the best course. 

I do it.  I always struggle with it.   I don't like being rejected, unforgiven, misunderstood, so its hard for me to cut someone toxic out.  I want to think since I have changed that others can choose to change as well.  That said?  I also know when I get to the point I'm done?  I can be pretty confident I've done everything I can to try to avoid being done. 

No now?  Doesn't mean no forever.  It might just mean make some distance for now and revisit it later to see if you feel differently or dynamics change.  It might mean shutting the door and keeping it shut.  You will know when and what you are ready to do...when you do it.  

[isabel]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Your sort of on the other side, so it's helpful to see it from that point of view.

[Ayla]

@isabel ,

I was in a similar situation in my own family. You need to sit with your anger, fear and grief. Bottom line is: if a fire burnt you once, would you go back into it to demand excuses ? 

I highly recommend "the presence process" by michael brown. 

 

[isabel]

I am five years older than my brother, I started doing drugs at age 12, I did drugs heavily around him and I offered him drugs for 6 years, until I was 18 and he was 13.

Thankfully, he never accepted and never did any drugs with me. I didn't push him to but I did offer and I did do hard drugs freely in front of him all the time. The only reason I quit at 18 is because I became pregnant and I was one of the lucky ones who was able to stop at that time and not go back.

After I became clean I  became very against drugs and took every opportunity to make that clear to him - but he went down that road anyway. He became addicted to meth and later to heroin as well.

We are now both in our 40s. He has been almost completely destroyed by his lifelong addiction and soon he will probably be dead. I spent the first 15 years or so banging my head against the wall trying to get him into treatment but all I got for it was hate and anger and accusations. "I'm out to get him." "I'm self righteous." "I'm just jealous of him." etc.

So I had to walk away. He hates me. He is so angry at me, but it's not just me, he hates literally everyone, even strangers. He yells at strangers in the street regularly. He's mean and screams at the whole family all the time. His son won't talk to him at all.

Still, I did my part to cause this. I did. I was a child, 12 years old, and I did everything I could to try and help him back out of it afterwards. At this point, I am also angry at him, he is extraordinarily mean to me, he steals from me, lies to me and about me, spreads rumors about me, lies to my mom about me and she believes him, she thinks I'm a monster.

It's so bad that I just want to walk away, but I can't because he is my little brother and I feel responsible for opening that world to him. I hate myself for that, what do I do?

 

[Kelley White]

37 minutes ago, isabel said:

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Your sort of on the other side, so it's helpful to see it from that point of view.

You're very welcome.   @isabel Thank you. 

[Ayla]

@isabel ,

YOU did NOTHING wrong! 

You need to understand that things happen to people one way or another. This is HIS path, not yours. It doesn't matter what your actions were. 

It is very important that you take care of yourself first in this situation. 

If you are familiar with Teal Swan's videos on youtube, go there and work with them. 

Just give yourself a chance to get out of this. Once you're out of your own issues, you'll really be able to help others. If you're too weak, they'll drag you down. 

[Kelley White]

7 minutes ago, isabel said:

After I became clean I  became very against drugs and took every opportunity to make that clear to him - but he went down that road anyway. He became addicted to meth and later to heroin as well.

@isabel  I am sorry to hear about your brother.  Addiction robs so many of so much.  The only experience I have with meth addiction is from the law enforcement capacity and seeing men in prison, or the health issues which  result from this addiction.  It is my understanding the only other addiction more challenging to quit is smoking cigarettes.

9 minutes ago, isabel said:

I am five years older than my brother, I started doing drugs at age 12, I did drugs heavily around him and I offered him drugs for 6 years, until I was 18 and he was 13.

Thankfully, he never accepted and never did any drugs with me. I didn't push him to but I did offer and I did do hard drugs freely in front of him all the time. The only reason I quit at 18 is because I became pregnant and I was one of the lucky ones who was able to stop at that time and not go back.

So I hear you demonstrated some poor behaviors,

 

10 minutes ago, isabel said:

Still, I did my part to cause this. I did. I was a child, 12 years old,

You are taking 100% responsibility and you made efforts to be  a positive influence and offer help. (Correction/resolution.  You did all that is/was in your power to do. 

I had to want to get well.  I had to see what my addiction was doing to me and to people I loved.  I had to understand I was a medically induced addict who abused drugs originally meant to deal with an illness to cope with a murder.   I had to understand I was going to die if I kept doing what I was doing.  I am still working on forgiving myself, having compassion for why I fled to opiates to kill the pain.   No one could do it for me.  Just like when I quit smoking cigarettes, I had to do it, and I had to want to do it for me.

If your brother doesn't want to quit?  If he is so afraid of reality he cannot imagine facing it without meth?  What must that pain and fear feel like? 

16 minutes ago, isabel said:

We are now both in our 40s. He has been almost completely destroyed by his lifelong addiction and soon he will probably be dead. I spent the first 15 years or so banging my head against the wall trying to get him into treatment but all I got for it was hate and anger and accusations. "I'm out to get him." "I'm self righteous." "I'm just jealous of him." etc.

So I had to walk away. He hates me. He is so angry at me, but it's not just me, he hates literally everyone, even strangers. He yells at strangers in the street regularly. He's mean and screams at the whole family all the time. His son won't talk to him at all.

This is the drugs talking.   It could also very well be permanent damage due to the drug use.

 

17 minutes ago, isabel said:

It's so bad that I just want to walk away, but I can't because he is my little brother and I feel responsible for opening that world to him. I hate myself for that, what do I do?

There is nothing you personally can do to change that, he is an adult and that is now his choice and his responsibility.   You can hope he gets to that place; even then, its a process and it takes time.   Do you lose your happiness to his choice?  (Now I'm speaking as much to you right now as I am to me, so I thank you, because I have  a son in prison, and I kind of punish myself for him being there, and I punish myself for my kids struggles....so I can understand that emotion.  Just writing this I personally can feel that sorrow now, the self loathing although it last for shorter periods.   I'm learning in the whys of some of my choices to see  the totality of my life and forgive myself, be kinder, more compassionate to me.  The me I am now is not the me I was then. 

My son also reminded me that when I beat myself up for his action (the murder) I rob him of taking 100% responsibility for himself.  That was a gut punch to me.  I had to sit with that for awhile before I could really get the magnitude of what he was saying.

When I can think clearly?  The best tool I've found?  Pretend you are your friend, hearing your story and give you the advice you would  give your friend.   You may find like me, you are more compassionate to your friends than you are to you.