Computer Science + Consciousness

[JKG]

I didn't know whether I should post this topic into the life purpose section or the philosophy & science section. So I just put it here because its about my life purpose.

I have a problem with my life purpose. Through all of the exercises in the course I now have a pretty good sense that my life purpose is a combination of the two fields of computer science and consciousness stuff.

I am naturally good at maths, science and computer science. I get into a state of flow, love it to solve problems, and to implement solution processes in code. This is sort of my zone of genius.

On the other hand I want to have an impact on the world that isn't really connectalbe with this. I love it to understand these concepts Leo talks about. I am fascinated by metaphysical questions. I love it to understand various topics deeply and to see the impact of them on life. I love it to be open-minded and learn new stuff. I would like to make the people more open-minded and conscious about these things in some way.

The problem is that I don't know what to do with these two fields together. Its like I want to combine logic with nothingness. Its simply not possible for a computer to grasp nothingness.

I feel like this:

public boolean alive = true;
private boolean enlightened = false;
private I i;

public Life() {
	i = new Something();  
}

private void inquire() {
	i = whatAmI();
}

private Something whatAmI() {
	return null;  
}

while(alive) {
	if(!enlightened) {
		i.inquire();
	} else {
		i.doNothing();
	}	  
}

Because the return statement of the method whatAmI() is null (nothing) I would get NullPointerExceptions all the time. Nothing cannot do doNothing() or inquire().

I have been thinking about doing something with artificial intelligence. There is much undiscovered potential in this field. But what the hell should the AI then do? I could try to create some sort of new technology that makes it easier for people to have new insights, but there are already psychedelics and so on. Or I could try to rebuild a human brain with computers and see what happens. Or a software that analyses all the blockages in the minds of people, but people can do that well enough too.

Any ideas?

[Afonso]

I'm at the same place... Love computer engineering, programming, making beautiful code and creating beautiful systems that work with each other.

On the other hand, I want fucking Truth am I right?! Truth and Personal Growth are some of my top values!

Edited May 16, 2017 by Afonso

[Timotheus]

One could ask what the hell should the homo sapiens sapiens do with its intelligence. AI might be the next big breakthrough in the development of (material) intelligence on planet earth, which for me seems to be quite epic.

Maybe discovering ways to connect the AI with the human brain could be worth to pursue? An enlightened hyper intelligent cyber sapiens as the next species..  

 

[Azrael]

Yeah, do AI. Research it, it's amazing. Look at neuronal networks, deep learning, deep belief networks. Philosophize how consciousness does its thing, bring it into your algorithms and push it to the next level. There hasn't been a greater time to do this then right now. I do the same shit and I love it.

[JKG]

16 hours ago, Timotheus said:

Maybe discovering ways to connect the AI with the human brain could be worth to pursue?

Cool idea.

17 hours ago, Azrael said:

I do the same shit and I love it.

Could you give an example of what you are doing exactly? Its still hard for me to understand the connection, because I have not much experience with AI. 

[Dragallur]

@JKGIt might help you to learn also about cognitive science. Check out about AI some projects like Deep Blue, AI that is learning by itself. Also terms like AI singularity and Human-friendly AI.. those things might get you interested and you might get better sense of what you want. There is a lot of potential in AI that is learning by itself and it might be the future of humankind. Search about AI that is able to create music or write poems, learn how it works.

 

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, JKG said:

Could you give an example of what you are doing exactly? Its still hard for me to understand the connection, because I have not much experience with AI. 

I'm currently working myself up to it. I study in my bachelor right now and take courses on information retrieval, databases, bio algorithms etc. And then in my master I'd like to take these fields to the AI level, for example neuronal networks and text processing in information retrieval, big data systems, language processing. Stuff like that.

And on the side I implement some AI and similar stuff to get my head around it. On my job I mostly do import / export of data in certain unified formats in and out of our systems.

[JKG]

On 16.5.2017 at 10:38 PM, Timotheus said:

An enlightened hyper intelligent cyber sapiens as the next species..  

the more that I think about this, the more awesome it sounds

[Alex K]

Hello, I'm a mediocre software developer thus inferiority complex ))== To make some serious breakthrough work in AI field, you need to be at a real high phd in applied math scientist level with asperger, just watch some vids from Watson coding team - and they just barely process cold knowledge. It is not good enough to be "naturaly good at math", you should be 1 in 1000-10000 good at math I'd estimate which is the level when you win at chess with mediocre adults at 5 years old, like to program at 7, finish math bachelor at 15 etc....

My advice is not to destroy yout next 15 years with CS. Do something humane like being an MD, a teacher, a jurist to some high-consciousness organization like GreenPeace or Civil Rights protector, an artist, a conscious business owner, be an economist on a panel to create new models for sustainable world etc... Just don't spend your life carefully wording your message to a bunch of computers!

Edited May 18, 2017 by Alex K

[Huz]

11 hours ago, Alex K said:

Hello, I'm a mediocre software developer thus inferiority complex ))== To make some serious breakthrough work in AI field, you need to be at a real high phd in applied math scientist level with asperger, just watch some vids from Watson coding team - and they just barely process cold knowledge. It is not good enough to be "naturaly good at math", you should be 1 in 1000-10000 good at math I'd estimate which is the level when you win at chess with mediocre adults at 5 years old, like to program at 7, finish math bachelor at 15 etc....

My advice is not to destroy yout next 15 years with CS. Do something humane like being an MD, a teacher, a jurist to some high-consciousness organization like GreenPeace or Civil Rights protector, an artist, a conscious business owner, be an economist on a panel to create new models for sustainable world etc... Just don't spend your life carefully wording your message to a bunch of computers!

Maybe he is this maths genius. Maybe he isn't. Researchers in AI are the people making breakthroughs. But the AI community is generally open. They share their results. That means you can take their breakthroughs, and merge that with your values of consciousness and self actualisation. And create fucking cool shit.

I feel the same with what I am doing right now. I am studying mathematics for general relativity right now for my exams coming up. Did I invent this theory? Course not. It took one of the most imaginative and best scientist that ever lived to do that. He was a 1 in 1000000. However does that stop me of learning his beautiful theory? No of course not. Does it stop me of working hard to get the mathematics down to understand it conceptually? Of course not. Do I love trying to understand the concepts of general relativity, of course I do. Can I apply the language to solve problems and get creative with maths? Yeah I can. 

As can @JKG, take and implement AI theory in to practice to create cool shit. Let the theoreticians push the theoriteical boundaries, let the engineers build stuff. But choose what you wanna be. But yeah this field seems exiting!!

Edited May 18, 2017 by Huz

[Alex K]

@Huz great to have you here. What type of work do you think you would be doing after studies over?

Edited May 18, 2017 by Alex K

[JKG]

19 hours ago, Alex K said:

Do something humane like being an MD, a teacher, a jurist to some high-consciousness organization like GreenPeace or Civil Rights protector, an artist, a conscious business owner, be an economist on a panel to create new models for sustainable world etc... Just don't spend your life carefully wording your message to a bunch of computers!

I would rather be a "mediocre software developer" than teacher or jurist There are also other fields within computer science where I could do something successfully if AI doesn't work.

Maybe I am not 1 in 1000-10000, but at least 1 in 100 or 200. I would say that I am (one of) the best in school in my whole year in maths, computer science, chemistry and physics.

@Huz @Alex K How important is maths now in this field?

 

[Huz]

@Alex K Good question. The truth is that I dont specifically know what I am gunna pursue. I like a lot of things. I find it challenging to actually pick one. But the important thing for me is just to take action. You learn about yourself through life experiences, not thinking about the perfect fit. However, at the moment it seems like AI. You use advanced level mathematics to create intelligence. To me it sounds to good to be true. Something I am eager to study and implant to create.

@JKG It seems like so. Vector/linear algebra and probability theory are used to express AI. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Huz

[Alex K]

Wow you guys, I feel smarter and more motivated just from briefly conversing with you over the net. Maybe I can pursue something exciting like AI as well since my mortgage should be finished this year. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Alex K

[Huz]

6 hours ago, JKG said:

Maybe I am not 1 in 1000-10000, but at least 1 in 100 or 200. I would say that I am (one of) the best in school in my whole year in maths, computer science, chemistry and physics.

This reminded me of my life. I am not saying you are arrogant. But be aware if you notice any arrogance in yourself, with respect to your work. I am only saying this because this is what happened to me. Everyone told me I was the best at maths/sciences at college. I would help people out, they would come to me. I got complacent, cocky, started smoking weed, focusing less on work. Because I had this believe that "I was the best, I don't need to work". For A-Levels I didn't. I didn't need to work that hard to get the best results. The shock came when I went to uni. I carried the complaceny with me. I partied more, got into drugs, thinking I can do the work without effort. This backfired and I nearly failed first year. Since Leo I have been working hard and am pushing for top results. My spark for maths has come back. But I nearly let it slip. Becareful of this. It's so sneaky haha. They key is to humble yourself to your work. You truly know nothing at all.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Huz

[JKG]

53 minutes ago, Huz said:

This reminded me of my life. I am not saying you are arrogant. But be aware if you notice any arrogance in yourself, with respect to your work. I am only saying this because this is what happened to me. Everyone told me I was the best at maths/sciences at college. I would help people out, they would come to me. I got complacent, cocky, started smoking weed, focusing less on work. Because I had this believe that "I was the best, I don't need to work". For A-Levels I didn't. I didn't need to work that hard to get the best results. The shock came when I went to uni. I carried the complaceny with me. I partied more, got into drugs, thinking I can do the work without effort. This backfired and I nearly failed first year. Since Leo I have been working hard and am pushing for top results. My spark for maths has come back. But I nearly let it slip. Becareful of this. It's so sneaky haha. They key is to humble yourself to your work. You truly know nothing at all.

There has been a time when I wanted to get a lot of appreciation for my abilities. But I never was arrogant - I guess. I know that I want to become a master of my field, so hard work is required.

Being humble sounds good

[JKG]

It seems like maths is more important than I thought. But how important is maths now in comparison to computer science?

I will have to chose what I want to study in university in about 1.5 months. Until now I thought of computer science as a major with a minor in electrical engineering. But I also could take maths as a minor. Or even maths as a major and computer science as a minor. What would be better? Is there even a right choice?

[AndreiC]

Don't be biased towards the idea that to make something amazing with AI you have to be the person discovering and understanding all the ins and outs of how the algorithms work.

It's the same as all fields, scientists lay the groundwork, engineers make the inventions. I would say computer science is way more important than being a maths guru if you want to have an end result which is not a theory.

You can start studying Watson right now for example. It's crazy easy to use their base algorithms for all sorts of creative stuff. In fact maybe you should start like right now.

Same thing as with computer science in general. I doubt anyone at all nowadays knows exactly every part of how a compiler works and also does actual coding. Imagining you have to be a phd in maths to get into AI is like imagining app developers nowadays have the slightest idea about machine code.

Edited May 19, 2017 by AndreiC

[Alex K]

@AndreiC I do not know if you actually are a developer, but developers of good stuff know their way around machine code) and bytecode) as those are keys to how the system works under serious pressure. Moreover, we even need to know some about hardware workings as well. 

I never said you must be a math phd, I said you should have a strength of mind on par with one. Also, when one talks of math it means abstract, pure math like topology, groups theory, chaos.  On the other hand an applied math ph.d. can be exactly about ML among dozens of other things.

@JKG What is your arrogance about? How old are you? How deep are you into pure math?

Edited May 19, 2017 by Alex K

[AndreiC]

@Alex K my point is not to contradict you or make your job sound easy but highlight a limiting belief. And yes I am a developer, be it of software for robots and machines the skill set is similar. 

Obviousily you need some basic knowledge of all parts involved, that's not the point. Nothing is easy until it becomes easy.