Online Marketing, Ethics And Life Purpose

[cle103]

Preface:

I don't want any "life advice" but I would really appreciate some of your thoughts as I found the feedback in this forum always as tremendously helpful. 

 

Here is my current situation: 

• 19 years old (soon to be 20) 
• Technically a college student, but hating it 
• Living in Germany (college is free, but nope this post won't be about dropping out) 
• Working full time in an online marketing agency and loving the work 

 

My question:

I am now working for the agency for one year and I really love what I do. It's fun. I'm doing copywriting, conversion optimization and pay-per-click advertising for our agency but also our clients (ecommerce stores e.g.). In addition to that we're teaching this stuff to another set of clients...

 

And here it begins... 

A large chunk of the revenue we bring in comes from teaching other ppl. how to make money. On the one hand I think that many ppl. can benefit greatly from the advice and knowledge we provide on topics like online marketing but it still leaves a really bad aftertaste. 

 

Furthermore there is the "boss situation"

I got into the job because I wanted to be the mentee of my current boss. And I am. And I benefit greatly from it. I'm not in this for the money (as I get paid minimum wage). I'm in it to learn. But I can't help but notice that he is not really living up to his talk. He talks about topics like self-actualization and I really think that he is more self-developed than 99.9% of humanity. Nevertheless he is deeply caught up in consumerism which he claims to be avoiding... 

 

The core of the issue: 

As I see it online marketing is a great way to make money and if done right it can benefit alot of ppl. but the methods used are not always ethical (my opinion). One of the issues I'm dealing with for example: 

If we're using Facebook ads to get ppl. to buy our course/coaching/whatever but I still think that Facebook is a cocaine dispenser for humanity... is it an ethical tool? One could argue that we have to meet ppl. where they are in order to get them to higher paradigm (which would be to use facebook ads again on other ppl. - that irony). 

Man that shit is twisted... 

As it is now I see the last year I worked for the company as the greatest time of learning in my life. Especially compared to college. 

But I'm struggling to define what an ethical way of doing business is and how to make the most out of this situation or even if it's time to move on... 

I'm taking on alot of responsibility in the company and I think I could "mold" it into something more ethical and great, but that's also just an assumption (especially when your survival depends on ppl. to give you their money in order for you to teach them how to make money). 

I already checked out the life purpose course but it couldn't really help me move along (yet). I love what I do, I want to keep learning, but I'm questioning my current path. 

Any thoughts are deeply welcomed. If I have to rephrase something in order for you to understand it better - let me know. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

Of course most marketing and business is unethical. Multiply that by 100 for online marketing.

It's a lot harder to build an ethical business on solid values. And it can't be done in certain industries. Which means you might need to change industries.

Building something to align with your deepest values usually means going back to the drawing board, questioning everything about what you do. You probably won't be able to do it just by putting some lipstick on a pig.

The LP course points the way for how to do it. It's not a very business-like course, but that's exactly why. Business-like courses will not ground you in your deepest values. They will just teach you unethical marketing techniques.

[cle103]

@Leo Gura Thanks alot for the answer. Do you consider Online Marketing as an industry that is doomed? There a multiple tasks/work that I really enjoy: 

• Designing websites and landing pages 
• The numbers game of advertising and the immediate feedback it gives
• Truely helping a customer with his business 

I am really thinking about it... wouldn't it be possible to make it ethical? And what about ethical marketing... 

[cle103]

@Hungry_Duck Thanks alot! At the moment I am not thinking about college cause I saw it as a waste of time (going to college for business is a joke). But I might consider it once I find sth. that is in line with my passions, values and interests. 

[cle103]

@Shiva Thanks!! Man that really sounds similar... and thanks alot for the advice.

I think a smart thing to do would be to make small bets and try other stuff. And then use the Online Marketing knowledge as a tool if it comes handy (in an ethical way). Gotta be honest though it still seems scary to drop the "mentorship" as it seems like "one time oppertunity".

Man that's tricky... 

Cheers! 

[cle103]

@unknownworld Tough call. That was the other option I was considering. Taking everything that I can and then build an ethical business from scratch. But not sure if that's the right way to approach it (not sure at all). 

[Key Elements]

On 2017-5-15 at 1:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

Of course most marketing and business is unethical. Multiply that by 100 for online marketing.

It's a lot harder to build an ethical business on solid values. And it can't be done in certain industries. Which means you might need to change industries.

Building something to align with your deepest values usually means going back to the drawing board, questioning everything about what you do. You probably won't be able to do it just by putting some lipstick on a pig.

The LP course points the way for how to do it. It's not a very business-like course, but that's exactly why. Business-like courses will not ground you in your deepest values. They will just teach you unethical marketing techniques.

This info sounds useful. Thanks. Ethics is sometimes on my mind. I'm a bilingual teacher - wrote a book already - got it copyrighted. However, I don't like the idea of actually going out, networking, and finding a publishing house. Why not put everything on my website and make some of the contents free and eventually some of the contents won't be free? It saves paper too. I love the idea of the "paperless office," but that concept never caught on in society. I use my book in the school I teach - printed by a print shop. Later, I will incorporate non-duality in teaching language in the form of a third person story.

I know in marketing, the startup would have to get really popular first before charging anything or selling any products.

If you have any other insights, please let me and others know. Thanks.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Key Elements

[Leo Gura]

On 5/15/2017 at 0:16 PM, cle103 said:

@Leo Gura Thanks alot for the answer. Do you consider Online Marketing as an industry that is doomed? There a multiple tasks/work that I really enjoy: 

• Designing websites and landing pages 
• The numbers game of advertising and the immediate feedback it gives
• Truely helping a customer with his business 

I am really thinking about it... wouldn't it be possible to make it ethical? And what about ethical marketing... 

Rather than focus on ethics, I would recommend you really get in touch with what impact you want have in the world.

Is that what you want your life to be about? The numbers game of advertising? Really? Is that the best use of Creation you can come up with? In a universe of 2000 billion galaxies, you will devote your whole life to building landing pages and min-maxing ad campaigns just so your customers can put a few more coins in their pocket?

[TJ Reeves]

@cle103 It's not necessary to create a false dichotomy here. You could use your "powers" in marketing to help out plenty of great causes. For example, perhaps you could help out a certain charity or volunteering industry that you really want to get behind. If you're as interested in marketing as you say you are, then I'm sure a fledgling charity would love to have your help. 

On top of that, you could do this to build your portfolio. Imagine what future employers or partners would say when you hand in a portfolio with all the charities you helped figure out the online marketing for. This would greatly help your career as you build whatever ethical business you'd like. 

I had a similar concern when I built my photography business - I hate instagram and Facebook advertising and didn't want to contribute to an online advertising culture that relied on cheap tricks.  Then I realized that a ton of charities would love to have someone take photos at their fundraisers for free and that by word of mouth, I could expand my network. Since I began volunteering to photograph those events, I have made a ton of new clients while doing something at least reasonably beneficial to the world. I'm moving on from photography to bigger things now... But when I look back at this time, I won't feel the total disgust with my methods that I worried I might have, had I used other methods. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by TJ Reeves

[cle103]

@Leo Gura That's definetely food for thought and on point. Thank you.

Nevertheless: Couldn't it be a starting point for a deeper purpose? Design, writing and (ethical) marketing? 

Edited May 21, 2017 by cle103

[cle103]

@TJ Reeves Interesting thought. I don't regard ads as "cheap tricks" as they are not lying to ppl. you can use them to amplify great content (e.g.). I was rather talking about the fact that it is rather questionable to use platforms I wouldn't promote myself. 

Regarding your thoughts on helping other causes with marketing: sounds very good, but I don't know if that would change anything about the "issue". 

[Leo Gura]

@cle103 Anything could be the starting point for a deeper purpose. You could be a thief or rapist, and that could be the starting point for your purpose. Life works in twisted ways.

This process requires that you search your heart and contemplate. Use your intuition, foresight, and consciousness.

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura But how do you convince people to work in your team with those type of values? I've been in the startup industry for a while. Investors only care about money. Employers only care about 'being big time' and being successful and famous and everybody loving them. 

And then you might say go find some spiritual high consciousness hippies to join your business

And then what you find is that they are so hippy, that they can't be fucked making a business.

The only way to do this is to somehow persuade greedy business people into doing a business of high values, by somehow getting a well meaning goal, and painting it with flashy dollar symbols, in hope of tricking everyone into thinking its going to make them rich, when its not.

[Huz]

@electroBeam One conscious hippy, whom wants to put in his effort to make a bad ass motherfucking buissness, is right here. My skillsets are, unconditional love and happiness, being able to handle high doses of psychedelics, being able to introduce people to god, I eat like a squirrel hippy -nuts and stuff, able to turn into a fluorescent wolf on demand, meditation, self inquiry, and know some computer languages, good at maths, and I love you. What more could you want from a candidate? 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Huz

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam By being a visionary and a leader.

Also, you don't need to necessarily convince investors. Do everything yourself if you're that picky. That's what I do. I work solo by design.

To run a successful business you have to be a relentless doer and outside the box thinker. No one is going to hold your hand in that process. You will either lead yourself, or nothing's gonna happen. You need to provide all the answers. That's your job. If I solve your business problems for you, then I'm the one creating that business, not you, making you obsolete. The whole point of starting a business is that you personally assume responsibility for solving the hard problems. That's why you get paid the big bucks if you succeed. It's not a paint by numbers process. If you want to paint by numbers, go work in a factory which some visionary has created.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say, "I want to be a leader! Can someone please tell me how to lead? It's hard. I don't know what to do!"

In that case, you're a follower.

[AlwaysBeNice]

I'd rather be a beggar than do online marketing.

This is not to judge marketing as 'bad', but it adds nothing to society, in fact the opposite could be argued, that cannot be truly fulfilling ever.

Also, marketing isn't the only options people have, I belief donation based services on the internet (+ a basic income) will be the future, but many streamers and youtubers already make good money through just the generous support of their fans.

[Socrates]

@AlwaysBeNice You can say that for every job on earth. The majority of jobs add nothing of value to people. It is not about adding to society but to people. View society as something negative, we want to add value to people not to society. Marketing can be good if you use it the right way. Imagine Leo pulling a Tai Lopez ad campaing. He would get massive and basically manipulate people for their own good. I dont see anything wrong with that. Instead of demonizing marketing why dont you use it for the good. By being a beggar you dont help anyone anyway so you just party with the status quo which is the unethical ad campains in this instance.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Marketing can in some cases be positive inspiring thing.

But no, beggars can also have a great value to society, it just on where they come from, what state of consciousness.