The Utter Elusiveness of God - Conquerable?

[Sincerity]

I took LSD last weekend for the first time in 1,5 years. A standard 300ug with the intention to awaken as deeply as possible.

I focused hard, though without pressure, sitting blindfolded, striving to be as open as possible. My entire identity was erased. I was completely self-defining, forgot literally everything including my name or what is happening, didn't know what anything is at all. I was conscious of God, of it being Me, but the thing is... for the life of me, I COULD NOT PUT A FINGER ON IT.

The same thing happened last time I took it 1,5 years ago. Profound consciousness of God, but paradoxically knowing even less than outside of the psychedelic trip. After the trip I thought to myself: I was so conscious. If I couldn't get it in this state, with this much of a focus, I don't know if I ever can.

Question, especially to @Leo Gura but other experienced folks as well. Can it be "gotten" better, or is it precisely the point that I don't get anything at all and I bask in seeing Reality, in Self-Definition, in utter Willpower, in being the Godhead itself?

I feel like during profound trips 3-4 years ago my God-realizations were much more "defined". I am God, I am Truth, and all that. Nowadays I feel like I know less and I just experience the state. Insights don't arise as much. The consciousness is spectacular, but the finger is never really put on God. I'm wondering if it can be.

I'm thinking how I can reach more profound levels. I want more. A deeper understanding of God. I'm thinking how to better direct my efforts and how I can improve.

Edited yesterday at 08:30 PM by Sincerity

[samijiben]

Your words are touching.

No comment

(Other than to say that your trips moving in the direction of something quite mysterious and foreign, no longer fitting into the frame of "God-realization" or some such, signifies that God-Realization might have only existed as an elaborare concept & nothing more. See it this way: Leo, in his brilliance, coined the term (or not) "GOD-REALIZATION" to explain THIS!

BUT "THIS" CANNOT BE EXPLAINED ABSOLUTELY! WE ARE ALL INCREDULOUS! CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT! IT IS MAGNIFICENT AMEN HALLELUJAH)

 

 

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I COULD NOT PUT A FINGER ON IT.

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

Got it. So when you talk about being Awake, that doesn’t mean having the finger put on God.

More like seeing EVERYTHING as God to insane degrees, but with the Mystery still intact. Right?

[Sincerity]

4 hours ago, samijiben said:

Your words are touching.

No comment

(Other than to say that your trips moving in the direction of something quite mysterious and foreign, no longer fitting into the frame of "God-realization" or some such, signifies that God-Realization might have only existed as an elaborare concept & nothing more. See it this way: Leo, in his brilliance, coined the term (or not) "GOD-REALIZATION" to explain THIS!

BUT "THIS" CANNOT BE EXPLAINED ABSOLUTELY! WE ARE ALL INCREDULOUS! CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT! IT IS MAGNIFICENT AMEN HALLELUJAH)

 

 

 🙇‍♂️

[Sincerity]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

Also: is it your view that at a point one should give up trying to put the finger then, once it’s realized that it is futile? And redirect efforts to other aspects of awakening like the why, the how, etc?

Edited 10 hours ago by Sincerity

[shree]

Try to gently oscillate between dissolving into pure ecstatic formlessness - and re-emerging into thought and self-reflection.

Let yourself vanish completely... then reappear... then vanish again.

On LSD, you have plenty of time to practice this.

There is no finger to be put on formlessness.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Got it. So when you talk about being Awake, that doesn’t mean having the finger put on God.

Well, that's tricky. I'm still working on that.

Quote

but with the Mystery still intact. Right?

A profound Mystery is essential. Mystery is not a mistake nor a lack of attainment.

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

Also: is it your view that at a point one should give up trying to put the finger then, once it’s realized that it is futile?

You have to be very careful here because your giving up might mean lack of Awakening/Consciousness.

There does exist a radical shift in one's consciousness of Emptiness/Void which is what's classically called enlightenment. This is not just a giving up, it's a radical new attainment.

You can realize the Nothingness extremely deeply. So deeply that it's shocking and terrifying. So deeply that it feels like you killed yourself.

So I would guess you're still probably missing something.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't put a finger on Emptiness/Nothing/Void.

There is a profound not-knowing to God. You are God but then God is not knowable. There is a dropping of knowing into being. Being is more fundamental than knowing. Meta-cognition fails to grasp Emptiness/Godhead because there isn't a thing there to grasp onto.

The crucial point is that there is no stable Self.

God is not the “Self” in the Jungian sense - not the integration of all separateness into unity.

God is radically open, like a Mandelbrot zoom: infinite, recursive, never settling.

There is never a moment where God can look at itself and say, “this is what I am,” because what God is is always in flux - not random chaos, but a continuous, self-differentiating unfolding.

Every moment, every movement, God invents itself anew - not by returning to unity, but by multiplying possibilities without end.

[Sincerity]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, that's tricky. I'm still working on that.

A profound Mystery is essential. Mystery is not a mistake nor a lack of attainment.

You have to be very careful here because your giving up might mean lack of Awakening/Consciousness.

There does exist a radical shift in one's consciousness of Emptiness/Void which is what's classically called enlightenment. This is not just a giving up, it's a radical new attainment.

You can realize the Nothingness extremely deeply. So deeply that it's shocking and terrifying. So deeply that it feels like you killed yourself.

So I would guess you're still probably missing something.

Got it. 

Thanks for the responses! I will reconsider my efforts to be wiser. Still, with the understanding that I’m missing things - I do feel I am, indeed. I might need to change my approach somehow.

Edited 7 hours ago by Sincerity

[Leo Gura]

@Sincerity Good.

Don't try to grasp Nothing with mind. To get it requires week long concentration retreats where you just sit and don't think. Buddha-style. This is where Buddhism is actually useful.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[mmKay]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are God but then God is not knowable. 

Has your opinion on this recently changed? You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reallity – completely.

I guess it's a paradox and strange loop.

[Yimpa]

12 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Has your opinion on this recently changed? You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reality – completely.

Reminds me of the face morphing exercise from the blog 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Yimpa

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Has your opinion on this recently changed?

No.

Quote

You used to say that you can actually fully grasp all of Reallity – completely.

I guess it's a paradox and strange loop.

You can grasp God. You can also realize Nothingness in deeper ways.

But even as you grasp it, what's grasped is that it's a Mystery.

Infinity is Undefined. I've spoken about this before on my blog.

Consciousness has this irreducible ineffable quality to it which is the consequence of the finiteness of knowability.

You need to question, What does it really mean to know anything? What are the limits of knowing? But understanding that there exists a deeper level than knowing.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura