Thinking place

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

I guess you could call it awareness, but it's not a personal awareness that you are used to - this ":I am" awareness. It's just non-duality seeing itself as non-duality without a separate individual. Even that statement was too dualistic - non-duality doesn't see itself, it just IS. It's not the I am who see's this -- you go beyond the I am to a place beyond consciousness and then you see that consciousness was illusory. But there's no you there. I don't know what to call that beyond place - there's no entity there - it's pure non-duality, awareness is too dualistic of a word I think. I guess you need to listen to Jim Newman or other teachers who are good at communicating these concepts. I just saw it and don't yet know how to conceptualize this to appeal to the separate self. The separate self probably can't understand this, that's where the struggle is coming from, it can't go beyond the I am, beyond consciousness. Awareness is all it knows, so it doesn't make sense for it that there's a "place" beyond awareness. 
 

I see, words can be confusing when different people use them in different ways. But I think i follow what you're saying. I'm gonna go to sleep 😴. 

🙏 Sudiev. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

You know how in your dreams at night you think you are this separate individual making choices and doing things, but when you wake up you see that you were just apart of this dream and it was all this one big happening without anyone in control? The control and the separate self was an illusion within the dream that was perfectly non-dual, a happening without parts, those parts were illusory, it was just one thing appearing in various images and forms and feelings and thoughts, but it wasn't happening to you as an individual and there was no individual, the individual was a part of the dream. The individual was never in control -- he was apart of this mysterious happening that seemed dualistic only when you were asleep.  That's what is happening now. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I see, words can be confusing when different people use them in different ways. But I think i follow what you're saying. I'm gonna go to sleep 😴. 

🙏 Sudiev. 

Labanakt 

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

You know how in your dreams at night you think you are this separate individual making choices and doing things, but when you wake up you see that you were just apart of this dream and it was all this one big happening without anyone in control? The control and the separate self was an illusion within the dream that was perfectly non-dual, a happening without parts, those parts were illusory, it was just one thing appearing in various images and forms and feelings and thoughts, but it wasn't happening to you as an individual and there was no individual, the individual was a part of the dream. The individual was never in control -- he was apart of this mysterious happening that seemed dualistic only when you were asleep.  That's what is happening now. 

I follow what you're saying, yea, that was a good analogy. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

Jim Newman:

The individual has never, would never, and could never do anything to rid itself of itself or uncover the reality of itself or what is.

What effect does working with the consequence of separation have? Spirituality and the spiritual path do have effects in the experience of the individual. They can make that experience better or worse (both only temporarily) and more or less functional. Just as therapy can. Spirituality bases its function on the assumption of there being something wrong with the person — the seeker. Which is in agreement with the assumptions the person has about itself, that there is something wrong with it. Spiritual teachings confirm this false assumption and tells the individual, what they can, could or should do, to be a better person, to find what is looked for. None of these approaches recognisze the real cause of the discontent: the experience of separation, the individual.
 

There is nothing missing and no need to find anything. When the dream ends, no one wakes up. The dream was the dreamers only reality. When it ends, there is no one left to wake up.
 

Non dualism has no judgment, as it does not recognize the free will (the individual experiences itself to have) as real. So there is no one to be responsible. Free will and personal responsibility are simply aspects of the illusory experience of the individual. This is a description, pointing out common misunderstandings, which arise because the suggestions and descriptions of non dualism are so foreign to the logic which arises out of the experience that “I am real” and “I do everything”.
 

Even the idea of “being no one” can be falsely understood as having to do with a real experience or real knowing. Real experience or real knowing are consequences of the illusory individual. Non dualism points to the unknowing emptiness, appearing as what is, which is beyond experience and knowing.

There is nothing to find, except “there is nothing to find”, which is never the result of seeking. There is no value in seeking, contrary to the seekers experience and value system.

Non dualism points to the completeness which is beyond words or understanding. It points to the wholeness, which is not effected by the experience of separation. It points to the unconditional love, which is already everything. It points to the unbounded absolute freedom, which is so free, it can appear as separation seeking freedom. There is only what is — everything — never anything else and this everything is the absolute freedom longed for already.

 

My comment: 

There is so much freedom in his words. 

I love that he is absolutely direct, which is the opposite of how ACIM is written. 

Such a breath of fresh air. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

 

[CoolDreamThanks]

NON DUALISM turns the way one normally thinks of enlightenment and spirituality on its head. Non Duality is a revolution. The simplicity of the message is absolutely undeniable. It reveals, that the search for enlightenment is in itself the continuation and confirmation of the separation. - Jim Newman

boom haha