Thinking place

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

I tested this: I tried to manifest/desire a lot, without any expectation, just fantasizing for the fun of it -- the most amazing fantasies I could come up with -- and I contrasted that with a state of desirelessness. 

That state of desire has an energy similar to a rap song - it's prideful, arrogant, energetic, exciting, extroverted, contracted, dense.

That's the expression of your personal self. You have to dig deeper, beyond the desires of the personal self lies the impulse of God itself. When you touch that desire with your awareness, then you have touched God himself. And it's a different state than detached witness awareness. It's full of glory and grandness (but not arrogance). Just the grandness of God that descend from the top of the crown to the rest of your body vibrating with joy and overwhelming love. It's a messianic conciousness. That's where true ability to manifest comes through and it comes no longer from the personal self but from the devine self that extends only the good, the holy and the beautiful. If it's Jesus that you're looking for, then you'll need a different approach. No one in nonduality circles know about this state. It's a completely different game. 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Salvijus

[CoolDreamThanks]

@Salvijus if you live in such a state, then wow, that sounds amazing; congrats! Unfortunately, I don't feel like that's a possibility for me. 

What resonates here at this point are teachings of non-duality—the realization of no personal will, the seeing that the person is the problem, and that as long as there is a person seeking, there is no chance of happiness.

I'm really tired of seeking and trying to attain enlightenment. It feels like I've already tried everything to the extreme, and nothing really fundamentally changed.

So teachings that say that nothing has to change -- this is already enlightenment -- it's just that there's a seeker on top of what is, and it veils the perfection, and the happiness is what is -- really resonate right now.

I'm hopeful that I can finally drop all seeking and just live in not-knowing, not-believing anything, just accepting that this is it, there's nowhere to go, nothing will ever change, just this flow and morphing of nothingness which is already perfect as long as I don't intrude upon it with my seeking and resistance. 

There's no person who will get enlightened, there's no person at all, just an illusory psychological entity, a contraction, and when it dissolves, what IS shines, and there's nothing that has to change. The person can't do anything to achieve enlightenment because all of this doing and seeking is what veils it. The end of seeking sounds bad for the person and kinda disappointing because he thought he will morph and transform into something glorious, but now I'm beginning to believe that this isn't it, it was just a fantasy. 

Kinda makes sense. I don't even know if I can decide to live in such a way -- but I will try and see -- maybe that will make me happy. 

I already tried everything -- why not try accepting that there's nothing to do and it's all already perfect and enlightened? What's the worst that can happen? I will either find happiness or find once again that I'm unsatisfied and will try again. 

 

[Salvijus]

@CoolDreamThanks well I guess you're right. I used to be into the art of non doing aswell. Gangaji used to be my favorite one. I think she's one of the few that has a solid understanding on it. Others in my view are just gaslighting people with nonduality lol. Acim and wom speaks on this subject aswell. So there's definitely value from it indeed. 

"To do anything involves the body. ²And if you recognize you need do nothing, you have withdrawn the body’s value from your mind. ³Here is the quick and open door through which you slip past centuries of effort, and escape from time. ⁴This is the way in which sin loses all attraction _right now._ ⁵For here is time denied, and past and future gone. ⁶Who needs do nothing has no need for time. ⁷To do nothing is to rest, and make a place within you where the activity of the body ceases to demand attention. ⁸Into this place the Holy Spirit comes, and there abides. ⁹He will remain when you forget, and the body’s activities return to occupy your conscious mind.

Yet there will always be this place of rest to which you can return. ²And you will be more aware of this quiet center of the storm than all its raging activity. ³This quiet center, in which you do nothing, will remain with you, giving you rest in the midst of every busy doing on which you are sent. ⁴For from this center will you be directed how to use the body sinlessly. ⁵It is this center, from which the body is absent, that will keep it so in your awareness of it. (https://acim.org/acim/en/s/225#7:1,7:2,7:3,7:4,7:5,7:6,7:7,7:8,7:9,8:1,8:2,8:3,8:4,8:5 | T-18.VII.7:1-9;8:1-5)

"Well, I have read the Course in Miracles one time, and it didn’t seem to work — I’ll read it again. Oh, that didn’t work. Well, maybe I’ll go try this form of meditation. No, that didn’t work. Maybe I’ll try Buddhism. No, that didn’t work. I’ll try Christianity. No, that didn’t work. I’ll try drugs — that will do it!

The very energy of seeking is the egoic energy. For only the ego can seek. Pure Spirit can only extend. And there is a huge difference!"

Edited 4 hours ago by Salvijus

[CoolDreamThanks]

Unrelated to the above discussion: 

i have a colleague who most people at my workplace regard as insane.  
 

she offered me to walk home together today. I don’t enjoy being with her, but because I still haven’t learned how to say a strong no, I am still people pleasing, I said okay. 
 

We walked for around 1.5hours and she yapped  about spiritual stuff, including Bashar, for almost the whole time. She talked about her dreams, how she’s a psychic, how she’s definately an alien and she’s on the wrong planet. She said she has the kindest eyes and she was very beautiful. She said she’s very happy and loves making others happy and her goal in life is to have beautiful energy. 
 

Her energy is the most arrogant and annoying I have ever encountered and in terms of beauty she is… I’ll leave it blank.  
 

She said she’s very special and from a young age her intuition is at a level no one else has.  
 

She said she’s extremely happy and spat out a bunch of concepts from spiritual books - how she’s in the now and enjooys nature and so on. Actually, at work she mostly complains..
 

I haven’t heard someone talk for 1.5 hours and be wrong about every single thing to such an extreme.
 

Whilst walking with her I thought — is she my reflection? A consensed, caricature-like reflection of the worst parts of my spiritual ego?

 

Sometimes I do yap alot, barely listening to another and I do believe in crazy stuff that is not based on my experience.  The whole belief in God-hood and ultimate control of reality creates such an unpleasant ego. I tried imagining talking to Bashar and his energy is so ewww — so strong dense and arrogant. 
 

Anyway.. i think It’s helpful to see something at an extreme level to pin point that in myself and be sure to never do that. 
 

Mostly listen - don’t yap. 
 

Don’t talk about things like Bashar’s teachings, dreams, mystical experiences, etc. It’s arrogant, annouying, alienates people. 
 

People want to be around someone who listens attentively, like Jim Newman, talks little and consciously, straight to the point and demonstrates wisdom and eloquence.  
 

People want to be with someone who is meek and caring, silent and attentive. 
 

It’s so easy to not work on the human on the path. Even when I had a session with Keith he just yapped away, didn’t really listen and wasn’t trult helpful — he teaches that you shouldn’t try to improve the human and that shows.  
 

The most pleasant people on the planet I think are those who don’t have an ego — people like Lisa Cairns, Jim Newman, Suzzane. 
 

That’s very interesting — isn’t that an indication that they are right and are talking from an egoless place?    
 

In contrast — Leo says he’s the highest of all, like all ego’s believe after mystical experiences — and he’s so unpleasant to people. so immature compared to someone like Lisa or Jim. Like a teenage spiritual ego on his I don’t care I’m god phase.  
 

It’s just a mirror. I still do that sometimes and I do see how it negatively affects relationships. Was talking to this beautiful girl recently and because of yapping about spiritual shit instead of listening and just being normal I lost her.  
 

At that time I still believed in Bashar’s shit and that energy is just so repelling. No one wants to be around someone who thinks he’s a powerful God creator. 
 
It’s much more, like 100x more pleasant to be around someone like Lisa or Suzzane or Jim who don’t even believe they exist — the complete opposite to believing you are a God.

[CoolDreamThanks]

The no self relization is pretty obvious now. Me is just a bundle of thoughts. If they stop, if all just relaxes, there is no me, just this. And then the me appears again when thoughts start. The me is appearing and dissapearing - how could someone who is here and then isn’t could be real? It’s just an illusory bundle of thought that believes he is an entity. But when looking back at myself now I see that there is no me. Just a belief in a me, and that belief if just that - a belief - a psychological contraction in what is.  not sure yet if that’s good or bad. I guess good - that’s the non-dual intelectual understanding?

[Salvijus]

44 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

Whilst walking with her I thought — is she my reflection?

Interesting thing is that if you were to accept her, you'd get closer to nonduality than ever before. That's the beauty of acim methadology. In fact, no amount of practice, meditation or nondual phylosophy will ever get someone to oneness unless they remove the walls of judgement that create the perception of seperation. How simple yet how much resistance at the same time. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Salvijus

[CoolDreamThanks]

20 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Interesting thing is that if you were to accept her, you'd get closer to nonduality than ever before. That's the beauty of acim methadology. In fact, no amount of practice, meditation or nondual phylosophy will ever get someone to oneness unless they remove the walls of judgement that create the perception of seperation. How simple yet how much resistance at the same time. 

But do you think it’s possible for a person to do that? And do you think there’s someone doing it? Now it feels like judgement just happens and if I try to stop judgement that’s just more resistance on top of initial resistance and more if an individual will appearing. 
 

Now, if there’s judgement then there’s judgement and I don’t feel like I’m doing it - it’s just what’s happening.
 

And also, how do you see people pleasing? I feel like people pleasing could be confused with non-judgement. I feel like now I just allow anyone to be with me just because it’s a part of the “flow.”  
 

I heard Lisa Cairns talk abour how after awakening she had to learn how to say no to people who were just blabbering in her ears for hours. I couldn’t do it today as well. Although I did try. I said I used to yap alot too, just like you.. but she didn’t get the hint.

[CoolDreamThanks]

The way I see ACIM now is it teaches the person to control himself - to be nonjugemental and to become mindfull - to connect with the I AM - consciousness. But that's just a preliminary step, since from the I am the person can actually see through himself as illusory. If the person is active and judgemental and is just running around he can't see through himself as not real, but if he becomes peaceful, which is the aim of acim -- then he can investigate himself more deeply and in the end find that all of these practices didn't do anything - it was just the illusory self chasing his own tail, but when he chases his tail to the extreme and becomes mindful and peaceful - he can look at the I am feeling and see that even tha feeling is illusory, a contraction. That's why Jesus says consciousness is an illusion - the first illusion introduced after the seperation. I think ACIM integrates beautifully with teachings of Jim Newman, both have the same end result in mind - to see through the me as an illusion and to return to non-duality, which the person can't do. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

But do you think it’s possible for a person to do that? And do you think there’s someone doing it? Now it feels like judgement just happens and if I try to stop judgement that’s just more resistance on top of initial resistance and more if an individual will appearing. 
 

Now, if there’s judgement then there’s judgement and I don’t feel like I’m doing it - it’s just what’s happening.

Someone who would be capable of unconditional love for everyone is probably super rare. But it's definitely possible to undo judgement through prayer and forgiveness or meditation. Whenever we notice a judgment arise we can enter communion with the holy spirit and allow it to correct our perception. I experience that daily. Many people do. Each time our judgments get corrected it bridges the gap from seperation closer to nonduality. But it's still a long walk. Feels like an endless walk maybe, who knows. 

1 hour ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

And also, how do you see people pleasing? I feel like people pleasing could be confused with non-judgement. I feel like now I just allow anyone to be with me just because it’s a part of the “flow.”  

There's people pleasing that serves God. And there's people pleasing that serves the ego. The second one is obviously not cool but it's not easy to tell the difference I guess. This is where asking the question "what do I truly want" becomes important and listening to the answer that gently reveals inside your heart. Then the true heart's impulse (or the holy spirit) fills the mind with the most appropriate action to take at the given situation. This topic has so many nuances I feel. 

Edited 30 minutes ago by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

16 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

The way I see ACIM now is it teaches the person to control himself - to be nonjugemental and to become mindfull - to connect with the I AM - consciousness.

I mean but it works, abiding in the I AM conciousness is what eventually brakes the egoic patterns of judgement and gets replaced with the I AM pattern. The I AM is a non judgemental energy and that energy needs to be embodied into every cell in the body until there is no egoic pattern left. It's not the person that is undoing the judgments. It's the I AM presence that is undoing the person. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

11 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I mean but it works, abiding in the I AM conciousness is what eventually brakes the egoic patterns of judgement and gets replaced with the I AM pattern. The I AM is a non judgemental energy and that energy needs to be embodied into every cell in the body until there is no egoic pattern left. It's not the person that is undoing the judgments. It's the I AM presence that is undoing the person. 

Well, I think it works as a preliminary practice to calm the person down, but it doesn't get you freedom annd non-duality. 

The I am is still a contraction, still a separate self, although sometimes a glorified one by some teachings, but, once again, Jesus and other teachers warn that consciousness is still an illusion and has to be gone beyond. 

Experientially, too, one can confirm that consciousness is still an illusion - it appears and dissapears - so it can't be it. There's still a duality there - a self that is aware of self, awareness aware of awareness. 

Edited 24 minutes ago by CoolDreamThanks

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

The I am is still a contraction, still a separate self

Mm... That's a strange one. Haven't you heard teachers say that the I am is a formless and infinite and that it's our true nature? It seems like becoming formless and infinite is the whole point of nonduality. Maybe you're exposed to different material idk. I've always heard I AM being described as enlightenment basicly. 

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

Experientially, too, one can confirm that consciousness is still an illusion - it appears and dissapears - so it can't be it. There's still a duality there - a self that is aware of self, awareness aware of awareness. 

Oh I see your logic now. I guess the common advaita counter argument would be "but who watches conciousness appearing and disappearing? Does that one appear and disappear?" Basically implying that there should be some primordial space that holds everything, even conciousness. Mmmm... I don't know what to make of it. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Mm... That's a strange one. Haven't you heard teachers say that the I am is a formless and infinite and that it's our true nature? It seems like becoming formless and infinite is the whole point of nonduality. Maybe you're exposed to different material idk. I've always heard I AM being described as enlightenment basicly. 

There are multiple teachers who identify the "I AM" as still an illusion, you probably just weren't exposed to those teachers. You probably did not pay too much attention to that part in ACIM, too. 

Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. ²Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego. ³The ego is a wrong-minded attempt to perceive yourself as you wish to be, rather than as you are. (ACIM, T-3.IV.2:1-3)

Then, I also explored my own experience and found that this is indeed true - I AM is still a separation, an illusion, and can be gone beyond. And beyond the I am there is no sense of self at all, just an indistinct non-duality.

And I also saw how consciousness - the "I am" is indeed the first, the primordial contraction from non-duality. 

Although it took a lot of exploring and only now am I beginning to understand how deep the illusion of the self goes. Just like you now believe that the I am is special and liberating and the true self - so did I believe that. But if you carry on and have a desire to see through illusions you will probably find what I have found. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

It's just that the self will do anything it can to not see through the final illusion, because that's the death of it. It's the disappearance of a separate will, a doer, an individual. So naturally, it will not like this realization that even the identity of consciousness is an illusion and you who were seeking and searching for enlightenment does not exist, and if you stop existing then the state of non-duality is restored, even though it was never lost, just veiled by the seeker, the consciousness. 

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

There are multiple teachers who identify the "I AM" as still an illusion, you probably just weren't exposed to those teachers. You probably did not pay too much attention to that part in ACIM, too. 

Consciousness, the level of perception, was the first split introduced into the mind after the separation, making the mind a perceiver rather than a creator. ²Consciousness is correctly identified as the domain of the ego. ³The ego is a wrong-minded attempt to perceive yourself as you wish to be, rather than as you are. (ACIM, T-3.IV.2:1-3)

Then, I also explored my own experience and found that this is indeed true - I AM is still a separation, an illusion, and can be gone beyond. And beyond the I am there is no sense of self at all, just an indistinct non-duality.

And I also saw how consciousness - the "I am" is indeed the first, the primordial contraction from non-duality. 

Although it took a lot of exploring and only now am I beginning to understand how deep the illusion of the self goes. Just like you now believe that the I am is special and liberating and the true self - so did I believe that. But if you carry on and have a desire to see through illusions you will probably find what I have found. 

That's a really interesting quote. Yea I've missed that one. I don't know what to make of it atm. 

Let me ask a question tho, if you don't mind. If you became aware that I Am is an illusion, isn't that just deeper awareness? Aren't you still the one who is concious and having this insight?