why women don’t like modern men

[Sugarcoat]

It might seem like we’re going in a negative direction of women liking modern men less than before. But I think it only seems that way because women have the choice today to be single to a greater degree than before. Women are more free and have more rights in several areas so that reflects itself in how they’re able to be more selective and expressive with men. Women probably had dislikes for men in the past, maybe even more than now but it wasn’t as evident as they had less choice and freedom. 

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It might seem like we’re going in a negative direction of women liking modern men less than before. But I think it only seems that way because women have the choice today to be single to a greater degree than before. Women are more free and have more rights in several areas so that reflects itself in how they’re able to be more selective and expressive with men. Women probably had dislikes for men in the past, maybe even more than now but it wasn’t as evident as they had less choice and freedom. 

You guys act like women weren’t allowed to work and were all getting forced into marriages until 2010. Women have been free to not get married or in relationships and to work and earn their own income for decades and decades in western countries.

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

You guys act like women weren’t allowed to work and were all getting forced into marriages until 2010. Women have been free to not get married or in relationships and to work and earn their own income for decades and decades in western countries.

I don’t know the exact years when it changed for women, but I meant even before that. And other things could have changed, such as the societal pressure to get married, the ideals have changed, the cultural norms.

Edited yesterday at 06:21 PM by Sugarcoat

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t know the exact years when it changed for women, but I meant even before that. And other things could have changed, such as the societal pressure to get married, the ideals have changed, the cultural norms.

It’s not as simple as preferences. People adapt to their surroundings and cultures. Studies find people in arranged marriages have equal or greater satisfaction as love marriages for example. 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Raze said:

It’s not as simple as preferences. People adapt to their surroundings and cultures. Studies find people in arranged marriages have equal or greater satisfaction as love marriages for example. 

Sometimes maybe the cultural norms are so ingrained that it affects the persons liking. So someone who has been conditioned to believe that arranged marriage is what’s right, religiously, culturally might be more likely to like it and less likely to dare question it. 
 

I am theorizing a bit, but I do believe all the feminism in the west, has changed things on several levels, from the more basic things like right to vote that happened a long time ago, to more cultural things like glamourizing the career woman, all of that has made it easier for women to openly criticize and be selective with men. 

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Sometimes maybe the cultural norms are so ingrained that it affects the persons liking. So someone who has been conditioned to believe that arranged marriage is what’s right, religiously, culturally might be more likely to like it and less likely to dare question it. 
 

I am theorizing a bit, but I do believe all the feminism in the west, has changed things on several levels, from the more basic things like right to vote that happened a long time ago, to more cultural things like glamourizing the career woman, all of that has made it easier for women to openly criticize and be selective with men. 

So how do you it isn’t the cultural norm now to be a career woman and criticize men is making them more likely to dislike men? 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Raze said:

So how do you it isn’t the cultural norm now to be a career woman and criticize men is making them more likely to dislike men? 

I don’t quite understand your question by the way it was written. Do you mean that the way feminism critiques men makes it more likely for women to dislike then?

[Schizophonia]

33 minutes ago, Raze said:

In truth that is closer to what most women actually want aside from when they are looking for a man they see as an easy target to get commitment from after failing to lock down previous men, you should let yourself go.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/women-really-dont-go-for-nice-guys-study-indicates/

https://www.psypost.org/wives-masculine-husbands-satisfied-peak-fertility-study-finds/

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-pitfalls-and-power-of-masculinity

I wonder where these beliefs come from that you have to be more fussy, wear tight clothes and be more feminine in general to be attractive; Oedipus complex ?

The only time my sister (an 8/10 at least) occasionally complimented me physically was when she saw me unshaven and in workman's clothes.

Same at university, girls followed me more than usual when I was unshaven, one even offered to eat out that day lol.

[Hojo]

@LastThursday There's no logical reason to go on a date. Its all emotion.

[LastThursday]

@Hojo of course there's logic. You want a potential partner and/or regular sex, it's not all pure emotion. Dating is one way to get that. And, I was pointing to the fact that dating is largely transactional, and asking questions of each other on a date is not unreasonable. Yes there is emotion involved, but there's also logic.

[Hojo]

@LastThursday Why do you want sex and a partner? Both those examples come from an emotional want or need.

Edited 20 hours ago by Hojo

[Emerald]

11 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

@Emerald

If I let myself go, I would actually be more stoic and caricaturedly masculine.

Men who are more emotionally attuned and sensitive are able to embody higher expressions of their Masculine side and come across as more stoic and Masculine than men who are disconnected from their emotions. 

Without that emotional attuenment and sensitivity a guy comes across as nerdy and as brittle as glass, like he's holding back and bitter and could easily break. Men who try to eradicate the Feminine from themselves come across in this very nerdy fragile kind of way as the Feminine is repressed and comes through in its lower forms.

But the more emotionally attuned and sensitive a man is, the more give and resiliency his personality has and he comes across as more embodied and more socially attuned (while embodiment, social attunement, and emotional sensitivity are positive Feminine principled qualities).

That's the interesting thing... if a man wants to enhance his Masculine, he should integrate the Feminine. If a woman wants to enhance her Feminine, she should integrate the Masculine.

A man without the Feminine is a brain in a brittle class jar... a woman without the Masculine is a lazy blob on the ground.

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Men who are more emotionally attuned and sensitive are able to embody higher expressions of their Masculine side and come across as more stoic and Masculine than men who are disconnected from their emotions.

Without that emotional attuenment and sensitivity a guy comes across as nerdy and as brittle as glass, like he's holding back and bitter and could easily break. Men who try to eradicate the Feminine from themselves come across in this very nerdy fragile kind of way as the Feminine is repressed and comes through in its lower forms.

But the more emotionally attuned and sensitive a man is, the more give and resiliency his personality has and he comes across as more embodied and more socially attuned (while embodiment, social attunement, and emotional sensitivity are positive Feminine principled qualities).

That's the interesting thing... if a man wants to enhance his Masculine, he should integrate the Feminine. If a woman wants to enhance her Feminine, she should integrate the Masculine.

A man without the Feminine is a brain in a brittle class jar... a woman without the Masculine is a lazy blob on the ground.

This was so well articulated and insightful that I’m gonna take this opportunity to promote some of my recent works to demonstrate an example of what Emerald is talking about here.

I believe my dancing is a very good showcase of theory put into practice on this matter.

I can be very expressive and in touch with my feminine side & emotions in my dancing (& generally too of course) - and because of that I come accross much more masculine, attuned, aligned, grounded than a ”try-hard” rigid stoic person.

Listen to the music as you watch me dance because dancing is all about expressing the music - otherwise it is just moves done in a circus manner.

And if you are inspired, take a moment for the captions / writings too as I feel like they are half the beauty:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIwUT0ANmVH/?igsh=dnIyMHJ3aTAxMzRu

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAODORhNtlA/?igsh=MW95bjQzODRyZ3YwMQ==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHWGAv1Ij7C/?igsh=emVyaDJuYXA3dXpp

I was very inspired because @RendHeaven sent me a private message the other day saying how he didn’t really believe my claims about the results I get with girls - but after visiting my IG and seeing the way I dance, he just immediately knew that I ”got it”.

His words:

”Then I clicked to your Insta and saw your sick moves. I immediately sensed that you are a guy that "gets it," if you know what I mean. 

Purified vessel. Getting out of your own way. This is really difficult for most guys.”

- - -

I really love how he called it ”Purified vessel”. That one hits deep as I’ve put a ton of work and pain to purify my psyche all the way from self-esteem issues & shadows to self-deceptions & biases.

But personally for me, I’ve been like this (expressive, vulnerable, emotional, in touch with my feminine side) for sooo long that I don’t even find it that special anymore but sometimes I’m reminded that most guys are not like this at all - and I guess it both saddens me but also makes me proud for how far I’ve come in my own psychological and spiritual journey.

And honestly, one of the biggest reasons I create these art pieces IS to inspire people to contemplate, to grow, and to become something higher and more divine.

Edited 13 hours ago by Miguel1

[Schizophonia]

10 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I’m gonna take this opportunity to promote some of my recent works.

I believe my dancing is a good example of what Emerald is trying to point out here.

I can be very expressive and in touch with my feminine side & emotions in my dancing - and because of that I come accross much more masculine than a ”try-hard” rigid stoic person.

If you are inspired, read the captions too as I feel like they are half the beauty:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIwUT0ANmVH/?igsh=dnIyMHJ3aTAxMzRu

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAODORhNtlA/?igsh=MW95bjQzODRyZ3YwMQ==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHWGAv1Ij7C/?igsh=emVyaDJuYXA3dXpp

I was very inspired because @RendHeaven sent me a private message the other day saying how he didn’t really believe my claims about the results I get with girls - but after visiting my IG and seeing the way I dance, he just immediately knew that I ”got it”.

His words:

”Then I clicked to your Insta and saw your sick moves. I immediately sensed that you are a guy that "gets it," if you know what I mean. 

Purified vessel. Getting out of your own way. This is really difficult for most guys.”

- - -

For me, I’ve been like this for sooo long that I don’t even find it that special anymore but sometimes I’m reminded that most guys are not like this at all - and I guess it both saddens me but also makes me proud for how far I’ve come in my own psychological and spiritual journey.

I looked at your insta account; In any case I don't have the same energy so I wouldn't dance the same way, but the simple idea of exposing myself like that would make me die of shame. Literally just imagining myself doing that makes me cringe, it's like having a reverse orgasm.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Miguel1]

26 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I looked at your insta account; In any case I don't have the same energy so I wouldn't dance the same way, but the simple idea of exposing myself like that would make me die of shame. Literally just imagining myself doing that makes me ashamed, it's like having a reverse orgasm.

That is honestly crazy to me. It’s beyond my comprehension that someone would feel that way.

This is why Emerald talks so much about shame & shadow work - and why Leo’s rigid practical pickup approach doesn’t work for everyone.

For me, exposing myself & being open and vulnerable like that is the whole meaning of human existence, besides Truth.

But that is definitely a main trait of my personality type ENFJ:

Open-book, very sensitive and emotional & deeply in touch with the emotions of others and oneself, thrive for harmony between people in the environment I am in & extreme warmth, vulnerability and empathy.

Even tho you can say that I am a ”natural” at this, I’ve still done a ton of inner and shadow work to really mature. And also, each personality type, if they are healthy and mature, can inspire and teach other types a thing or two.

Edited 12 hours ago by Miguel1

[AION]

For me all this philosophizing about anima integration hasn't really worked until I started doing bio-energetics and start removing emotional blocks from my system and idd become a more fluid vessel of the divine/universe.

Bio-energetic grounding really strikes at where the anima is for the men: the body. One could be better off just saying men should be more connected and attuned to their body and treat their body like you would treat a nice lady. A nerd is a nerd because he totally neglects his body: you can see this in actual nerds who treat their body just as something to drag along. The anima integration stages are really about how you relate to your body and developing the feeling function at the cost of thinking function.

Anima integration does have a price but it is a price worth paying. For me it is all about balancing, just like yin and yang. The paradoxal thing is that guys who neglect their anima get regularly swallowed up by it and become emotional, irrational, and have all kinds of neurosis like a pyscho bitch. These nerds with a rigid body usually have a psycho bitch inside of them that likes to act out. One can't really suppress it. 

So to answer the question of this thread: I would say the modern day guy isn't liked because he is too feminine and there is no polarity, because these guys have become bitches themselves, and the reason why is because they listened to feminists and castrated themselves. And the tragicomic thing is that, women say men don't listen enough, and they should listen more to them which will only make men's problems even worse. It is the archetypal story of prideful Adam listening to naive Eve and eating poison which leads to shame. The core of a man is that man defines man by looking to himSelf, and not listen to naive opinions. When it comes to men's issues, they shouldn't listen to women but start listening to themSelves and to other men who walked the path and got to the promised land.

Edited 12 hours ago by AION

[Miguel1]

29 minutes ago, AION said:

The core of a man is that man defines man by looking to himSelf, and not listen to naive opinions. When it comes to men's issues, they shouldn't listen to women but start listening to themSelves and to other men who walked the path and got to the promised land.

You apply yin and yan concept to things when it suits you and don't apply when it doesn't.

The way I understand it, and yes I do have plenty of this "promise land" you talk about, is that both sides of women and men have their wisdom and traps.

And too much of anything becomes a trap. I don't follow the trendy influencer talks but there are wise women giving good guidance like Teal Swan & Emerald

As an example of the other extreme to this is: listening to THE man himself, THE embodiment of masculinity and manhood, THE king, Andrew Tate, will not get you any results. Instead, you will just come across an angry creep.

You will be far better off listening to Teal.

- - -

As for the bio-energetics, it's an interesting approach. I don't know much about it but it sounds compelling: working directly with the body.

I am probably too close to see the real fruits of it but me freestyle dancing with the focus of self-expression for 2 decades has probably done wayy too much for my own anima integration than I realize how to give credit for.

That being said, I would definitely not neglect the inner and shadow work either.

Edited 12 hours ago by Miguel1

[AION]

39 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

You apply yin and yan concept to things when it suits you and don't apply when it doesn't.

The way I understand it, and yes I do have plenty of this "promise land" you talk about, is that both sides of women and men have their wisdom and traps.

And too much of anything becomes a trap. I don't follow the trendy influencer talks but there are wise women giving good guidance like Teal Swan & Emerald

As an example of the other extreme to this is: listening to THE man himself, THE embodiment of masculinity and manhood, THE king, Andrew Tate, will not get you any results. Instead, you will just come across an angry creep.

You will be far better off listening to Teal.

- - -

As for the bio-energetics, it's an interesting approach. I don't know much about it but it sounds compelling: working directly with the body.

I am probably too close to see the real fruits of it but me freestyle dancing with the focus of self-expression for 2 decades has probably done wayy too much for my own anima integration than I realize how to give credit for.

That being said, I would definitely not neglect the inner and shadow work either.

It worked for you because you weren't a hard case. You would have coasted by either way. Although both Teal and Emerald are nice women and I respect them and I wish more women were like them, I don't think they are in the position to help men. Even Leo and Emerald regularly fight over this and I'm not going to shy away from saying this although it won't be popular.

Men have to develop the skill to extract wisdom from both masculinity and femininity energies. The one is not better than the other, it is about what is needed at that particular moment. It is like saying leaning left is better than leaning right. It totally depends on the moment. So Emerald saying men should learn left, is not good advice.

I wouldn't say incels are not emotional enough if you ever met them. Their problem is that they oscillate between two extremes of being too masculine neglecting their body or acting out too much from their body, watching porn or other addictions they have. The thing is that men don't have good role models. The closest thing that comes to it is Andrew Tate but he is toxic. But that guy helped me a lot helping me to start my business and focus on myself. Women will come as a by product of it. Of course it is nice if guys develop their anima and shit, but it is not really needed to get the goods from the other sex. One should do anima integration for one's own health and development, not for a woman.

For men with trouble with women and life, bioenergetics is the way to go though. It works directly with the body and strikes at the Gordian knot. I watched both Teal's videos and Emeralds and it is all intellectualizing and all in the head which is masculine to begin with: they are both overcompensating their traumas by becoming too manly. One has to work with the body aka man's femininity.  That is what you did very well. You also seem to have a passion for dancing which a lot of incels don't have so I'm glad it worked out for you. But it worked out for you because you worked with your body. Intellectualizng about anima/animus won't do much.

Edited 11 hours ago by AION

[something_else]

3 hours ago, AION said:

I would say the modern day guy isn't liked because he is too feminine and there is no polarity, because these guys have become bitches themselves, and the reason why is because they listened to feminists and castrated themselves.

It's not being 'too feminine' that's the issue for most men, it's a lack of healthy masculinity. It's an important difference. Masculinity and femininity are not on a spectrum whereby the more feminine you become, the less masculine you are.

Having feminine traits can actually get you laid like crazy btw. Some of the sensitive guys I've met are fucking animals because they know how to connect with women so well.

[Miguel1]

24 minutes ago, something_else said:

It's not being 'too feminine' that's the issue for most men, it's a lack of healthy masculinity. It's an important difference. Masculinity and femininity are not on a spectrum whereby the more feminine you become, the less masculine you are.

Having feminine traits can actually get you laid like crazy btw. Some of the sensitive guys I've met are fucking animals because they know how to connect with women so well.

Very well said.

As I’ve pointed out, I’m one of those sensitive guys and I attract girls left and right.

That being said, I am also a very grounded, strong & healthy masculine person.

Not sure which one is more valuable when it comes to attraction, but surely together they are like an atom bomb of attraction.

Top that with looks and extroversion and you are God.