Natural Death

[AION]

After the Pope's death I got reminded how awful natural death is. Most of the time it is not peaceful. Like some kind of heart failure. The last moments on this earth you will be struggling to breathe or your heart is about to bust in your chest. It seems like an awful way to go. I don't get why people just don't take a pill and take the initiative if it is apparent they are about to go. This shouldn't be that taboo in my opinion. My biggest worries is about lowing my mental prowess. People think they will maintain their mental faculties forever. With age you lose that too becoming a teeth-less lion being a burden on others.

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, AION said:

I don't get why people just don't take a pill and take the initiative if it is apparent they are about to go.

You don't know what the experience of the pill is, don't assume it's better than a natural cause if you haven't experienced any. 

 

1 hour ago, AION said:

With age you lose that too becoming a teeth-less lion being a burden on others

This can only be a problem if you don't do serious spiritual work and don't radically recontextualize what other is.

[Norbert Somogyi]

Natural death doesn't have to include months or even years of suffering due to aging-related symptoms (most of them can be prevented and some even reversed). Japan (Okinawa especially) have a lot of centenarians and super-centenarians who are moving around and well. More and more people retain their health well into their 80s and 90s. The US is obviously not a good example, but its' global influence on lifestyle and spreading junkfood makes not just lifespans, but healthspans worse too. 

Elderly people have a lot of options, but it's best to start out young for prevention. Cutting out processed food (carnivore, keto, mediterranean, vegan - different diet works best for different folks), exercise, sleep, sunshine, supplements (Vitamin D and cofactors, B, Omega-3 etc.) community. I don't know what the landscape will look like in let's say 50 years for now, but if the aforementioned options will still be available then we are good. Dementia, weak bones, severe muscle atrophy, joint pain, loss of energy, hearing, teeth - all of these can be things of the past with proper care.

EDIT: Spiritual faculties can work, too. Krishnamurti retained his sharp mind up to his last moments (Madras (Chennai) 1986 public talk - a month before his death).

Edited Tuesday at 07:53 AM by Norbert Somogyi

[Hojo]

Death always looks bad from the outside.

I saw a man on the day he died he was normally like laying there but he opened his eyes and was looking around insanely.

They start to look up and chanting unknown mantra for days.

Edited 17 hours ago by Hojo

[Yimpa]

On 4/22/2025 at 1:00 AM, AION said:

After the Pope's death I got reminded how awful natural death is.

 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Lots of fear here.

Are you afraid of death? Or the dying part?

Noting you are operating from a belief here.

Your beliefs precede your experience. Experience does not precede belief, despite what you are taught. 

If you believe what you say, so it shall be.

TBH though this is simply displaying a large attachment to the meat-sac you are currently wearing. It is important to experience death as it should be.

[AION]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Lots of fear here.

Are you afraid of death? Or the dying part?

Noting you are operating from a belief here.

Your beliefs precede your experience. Experience does not precede belief, despite what you are taught. 

If you believe what you say, so it shall be.

TBH though this is simply displaying a large attachment to the meat-sac you are currently wearing. It is important to experience death as it should be.

I don’t have a fear of dying. In the same way I don’t have a fear of stepping on a train. I have a fear of ending in between the train and platform; having to suffer a slow and miserable death. Transition is part of life. It is foolish to resist that but I don’t see you wanting to end up between the train and the platform. 

[WikiRando]

The time spent in that suffering is relatively short. You wake up for 50-70 or more years every single day and everything is fine before you die. That suffering is a blip. It's a very human, but irrational thing to hyperfocus on that little suffering blip in life.

Even if you suffer for a few years (and being run over by train is just minutes or seconds!) It's not long. It's short. But you spend years, almost every waking day of those 50-70 years worrying about those few years of suffering, maximum.

In that, the suffering you create for yourself is immense. It's not about that moment of getting run over. It's all the years you spend fearing it and suffering in anticipation of it. Instead of worrying every day about those few moments, wake up and say "wow, everything is fine today" and do that every single day. And actually mean it. Then not only will you feel fulfilled, and less fearful, you will be objective in the relative wellness of life. It's not objective at all to torture yourself and hyperfocus over the short blips and worst parts. 

Nobody makes a forum post saying "today, I was healthy", it's always the short blip, the worst parts of life that people focus on as a part of survival.

I do not disagree that suffering is real. It's just that this whole thing (and you're not alone) lacks perspective. So what? Is my question. Live your life. Today I was well, I woke up, I did great things, I lived my life. And yesterday, and the day before that. So what?  Instead of worrying the inevitable, live more fully. 

People are blowing up these suffering blips and hiccups into hairy, traumatic messes and living their entire lives upon this basis and backdrop of crippling imminent fear. That's sneaky delusion.
 

Edited yesterday at 09:55 AM by WikiRando

[Eskilon]

10 hours ago, AION said:

I don’t have a fear of dying. In the same way I don’t have a fear of stepping on a train. I have a fear of ending in between the train and platform; having to suffer a slow and miserable death. Transition is part of life. It is foolish to resist that but I don’t see you wanting to end up between the train and the platform. 

You do have a fear of dying, even in death you want to choose, how selfish! Death comes in a myriad of ways and you don't know which ones are miserable and which ones isn't. You don't even knows if it's miserable at all. Just live your life and don't worry about, your worry won't change anything, it will happen regardless.

Edited 23 hours ago by Eskilon

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08r3L58hI9g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDeMbojj8-E

[AION]

@WikiRando @Eskilon perhaps my experience of old age is different. I have seen old family members and old acquaintances suffer through endless chronic pain/disease. For example Leo Gura is another example. You don't know how painful existence becomes in that case. And mind you I'm a health nut, kick boxer and warrior. So I suffer every week in the dojo. But I understand that kind of suffering is different from old age. Probably the most worst of it is mental decay of old age. I can't stomach losing my intellect when I'm old. Probably not being able to fuck will be least of my concerns although that is a hard pill to swallow too. I have my emotional traumas too. I need to sort my relationship to being old because it kind of scares me although I still have a long and long way to go. One thing I do is I enjoy every moment of my youth. True wealth is youth. And a lot of young people don't appreciate it at all which is sad and I'm glad I know the value of youthfulness.

Edited 19 hours ago by AION

[chess_king]

On 4/24/2025 at 9:02 PM, Hojo said:

They start to look up and chanting unknown mantra for days.

What Mantras? like spiritual mantras or just unknown words

[Hojo]

@chess_king I couldnt understand but it was the same sounds over and over again. Everyone was saying she was singing I was like I dont think she knows what singing is anymore. For a long time before she died she was just yelling 'nothing is happening!'

Edited 17 hours ago by Hojo