What is experience?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Where is the appearance of a self. Do you see a self. Point to it. Point to your brain. They are both sense perceptions, not appearances.

I would point to my head but I can’t pin point it exactly 

They are sense perceptions from my pov yes, or you could say it’s all appearance 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

I would point to my head but I can’t pin point it exactly 

They are sense perceptions from my pov yes, or you could say it’s all appearance 

What appears is you pointing to your head. The brain is not an appearance. The idea of a brain is an idea. The appearance is someone that appears to have an idea of a brain.

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

Near-Death Experience, which can result in a number of different types of experiences. They can happen in seconds (before an accident), but during clinical death too (for five minutes or even longer, latter of which otherwise would suggest tissue death due to a lack of oxygen without a pumping heart).

During these you don't always experience having a brain. In fact, do you ever experience having a brain or do you just experience the convincing thought of having it?

Ok cool. You mention near death experience to prove a point of how consciousness can exist outside the brain right. I’ve had out of body astral projection so I have some experience along those lines. It for sure does put a question on how it all works

 

When it comes to having a brain that sounds a little solipsistic. It’s like “how do you know other have selves just because you have” it’s a valid question but I think it’s silly to assume you’d be the only one with a self. Similarly, you could look at anyone’s brain, why would you think you don’t have one. You can look at your arm and say you got an arm. Just because you can’t see or feel brain doesn’t mean it’s not there. Or actually we can’t know that. If you lose feeling in your arm and move it away from your vision, if we think everything that exists is our direct experience, we could say arm no longer exists until it’s within your sense perceptions 

[Norbert Somogyi]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok cool. You mention near death experience to prove a point of how consciousness can exist outside the brain right. I’ve had out of body astral projection so I have some experience along those lines. It for sure does put a question on how it all works

 

When it comes to having a brain that sounds a little solipsistic. It’s like “how do you know other have selves just because you have” it’s a valid question but I think it’s silly to assume you’d be the only one with a self. Similarly, you could look at anyone’s brain, why would you think you don’t have one. You can look at your arm and say you got an arm. Just because you can’t see or feel brain doesn’t mean it’s not there. Or actually we can’t know that. If you lose feeling in your arm and move it away from your vision, if we think everything that exists is our direct experience, we could say arm no longer exists until it’s within your sense perceptions 

I mean, the latter could go either way. Not being able to see does not mean it's not there, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily there either. This is a trickier part of experience. Can you experience anything outside your experience? Does not experiencing something not mean it does not exist? Reality is way too overlapping to consider this, but is there a way to know besides believe?

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

but I think it’s silly to assume you’d be the only one with a self.

It's not silly, it's a function of the energy that created the self. If it's a self, then everyone is a self. If there's a feeling arising it's claims that feeling. Everything now is real to it.

 

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Similarly, you could look at anyone’s brain, why would you think you don’t have one.

That's right, and that's why we think we have one because we've seen the evidence in the others. It's a self-proclaiming prophecy - so to speak. I'm real so you are real and you have a brain so I must have one. If you see a brain scan it's the Absolute appearing as a brain scan. If you hold someone's brain for any reason, it's the Absolute appearing as you holding something you call a brain. If you're recalling a memory, it's the Absolute appearing as a memory recall. I speak like this for the sake of this conversation and I don't go around saying I don't have a brain. Let's be clear.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

I mean, the latter could go either way. Not being able to see does not mean it's not there, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily there either. This is a trickier part of experience. Can you experience anything outside your experience? Does not experiencing something not mean it does not exist? Reality is way too overlapping to consider this, but is there a way to know besides believe?

Everything you experience is within your experience. Exactly . I don’t know for now the answer to the rest and I don’t know what would be required to know. 

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's not silly, it's a function of the energy that created the self. If it's a self, then everyone is a self. If there's a feeling arising it's claims that feeling. Everything now is real to it.

 

That's right, and that's why we think we have one because we've seen the evidence in the others. It's a self-proclaiming prophecy - so to speak. I'm real so you are real and you have a brain so I must have one. If you see a brain scan it's the Absolute appearing as a brain scan. If you hold someone's brain for any reason, it's the Absolute appearing as you holding something you call a brain. If you're recalling a memory, it's the Absolute appearing as a memory recall. I speak like this for the sake of this conversation and I don't go around saying I don't have a brain. Let's be clear.

Yea that’s right the self is the basis that then sees selves everywhere. But I think that’s reasonable. 
 

Yea you could say it’s all appearance of the absolute 

Edited Monday at 06:59 PM by Sugarcoat

[Princess Arabia]

 

[Norbert Somogyi]

16 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Everything you experience is within your experience. Exactly . I don’t know for now the answer to the rest and I don’t know what would be required to know. 

Neither do I, appreciate the honesty. 

Perhaps Solipsism is the way, perhaps not. It's fun to think about for a while, just don't get lost in it. Let's enjoy life, instead!

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Everything is meaningless; we give it meaning. If knowing is only a part of the experience, what is another part. Maybe the contents, you might say. The person has to know they're experiencing in order for experiencing to occur. If not, then it's just what's happening.

You always say that there is no self but your line of though is attached to the self. The self is an structure of reality that is happening in the experience, an by its nature it is veiling the true nature of the reality. It's much more simple than what you are saying. 

Do this mental exercise: Imagine you're a bird singing on a sunny day. Imagine it for real. You have no awareness of yourself as a bird; you know absolutely nothing; just a song that flows. There is only that, absolutely nothing else. That song is the totality of existence; it is absolute being, flowing without limits.

Now imagine you're a scientist obsessed with quantum physics, in the midst of a difficult divorce, who also hates his narcissistic mother. That is the totality of reality, flowing exactly like the bird's song. The only difference is that in this structure, there's a split in which reality divides in two, and in this split, the self appears. It's an energetic and conceptual bubble that becomes aware of itself, seeing itself as separate from the rest of experience when it isn't, it appears to be so because of how experience is structured.

This separation creates permanent, inevitable dissatisfaction. It doesn't matter if it were an experience without problems; if it's separate, it's dissatisfaction. So that bubble seeks to escape from that trap and the only way is to break the bubble and open up completely and be one with the flow, so even if it is in the middle of shit, it is simply the absolute being manifesting, just like the song of the bird, and from its fluid of shit it will say: hallelujah. Because the form doesn't matter, the substance matters, and the substance is always the absolute being saying: hallelujah. 

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

          Shut up and look.

[Breakingthewall]

but then this shit appears and you say: hallelujah? Hallelujah for your mother son of a bitch, I want to scape.

That's why the ego is strong 

[Sugarcoat]

39 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Shouldn’t you have used the “look at this car” meme 😹

[Breakingthewall]

cheers from the heart of love and beauty. 

[Sugarcoat]

49 minutes ago, Norbert Somogyi said:

Neither do I, appreciate the honesty. 

Perhaps Solipsism is the way, perhaps not. It's fun to think about for a while, just don't get lost in it. Let's enjoy life, instead!

Solipsism seems like the silliest idea to me to be honest. Why would reality be limited to only one sense of self?
 

I enjoy pondering these things. 

[Princess Arabia]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

So that bubble seeks to escape from that trap and the only way is to break the bubble and open up completely and be one with the flow,

This is where I think you're misled. You're saying the bubble is real and can do something. It's illusory, so there's no one that can do anything to break anything because it is only an appearance. "There is already one with the flow". You die don't you. Appear to die anyway. Let's not talk about death, but do you really believe you as a person exist that can break some bubble of existence that isn't happening to begin with. What you're talking about is an idea, a thought that appeared to you and you think it's yours and now you have an idea about what existence is and what you can do about it. Let's see you do something about what appears. You can't.

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, Yimpa said:

eheh

[Schizophonia]

16 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Solipsism seems like the silliest idea to me to be honest.

And yet it is the truth !

[Norbert Somogyi]

28 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Solipsism seems like the silliest idea to me to be honest. Why would reality be limited to only one sense of self?
 

I enjoy pondering these things. 

On one hand I find it fascinating, given how it would mean an infinite creative potential. The ability to create a universe/multiverse with its' laws, matter, life and eventually humanity from which it can rediscover itself (one of seemingly infinite points of view). All in perpetual, dynamic motion of self-emergence.

On the other hand it means perpetual loneliness. Which may be one of the reason why things are being this way, assuming separation and the ability to relate to one another - yourself. In case it entails Absolute Love, perhaps it can only be shared this way?

What if there are an infinite alternate timelines or existences, which can mean infinite solipsistic selves (oh, the paradox). Would they be able to interact with one another? What if human genetics restricts the ability of one's consciousness to grow beyond a certain point, solipsism being the highest at this point in time? What if evolution applies to genes that govern individual sensitivity to spirituality and awakening, and as we go on this threshold grows? 

What about aliens, are they part of it despite us not being conscious of them?

What if solipsism is but a stepping stone, and consciousness can realize higher truths? Like Infinity of Gods, but then realize it is all the same imagination, coming back to Solipsism but on a higher plane. This can result in an infinite cycle of individual and collective Solipsism so to speak, just like how the spiral evolves in a similar fashion. Swinging the pendulum between individualistic and collectivistic orientations, as the realizations become more and more God-like.

Edited Monday at 08:37 PM by Norbert Somogyi

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is where I think you're misled. You're saying the bubble is real and can do something. It's illusory, so there's no one that can do anything to break anything because it is only an appearance

Illusory or real means nothing. Things are, and that's it. If I take out my eyes, it may be illusory, but I'll go blind. Also I can open my energetic structure to merge with the whole. Illusory or not, it happens