Key to Social Success: Holiness

[AION]

You basically have to find out what is "holy" for that person and just praise that.

I had this gf who was really in Jordan Peterson and she was basically worshiping him. It was obvious to me it was because of her daddy issues so she projected her daddy onto Peterson. It was very dysfunctional and it was getting annoying. So after I while I started commenting on this and after that it went south really fast. 

The bottom line of the thread is this: never attack that thing or person that is holy for the person you are talking to...

In the same way, everybody has their own idols they worship. It doesn't have to be a person, it can also be a concept or belief. Examples of idols

• Jordan Peterson
• Integral model or SD model
• Jesus
• Athlete 
• Ghuru
• Alien consciousness
• Leo Gura
• A particular book/theory
• Preacher etc

It is really a big sin to worship idols and almost everybody does it. So I made the misjudgement that everybody was interested in the truth as me. If you are into truth, it will blow up your social life. To friends and to have a good social and dating life you basically have to cater to their emotions, survival and ego to be successful. It is no different on this forum and here I'm making this topic lol. I think very socially successful people know this. One should observe it to understand it. It can also be clearly seen in certain podcasters, they inherently know this.

You basically have to instill the belief that the other is "holier than thou". Especially with girls if you give her the feeling she is not holy aka not a holy Mary, you are gone so fast. Even if she is a huge slut you have to give her the feeling she is worthy of what is holy aka love/respect but it shouldn't come free because what is free is not appreciated by the masses.

We can also see this with pop stars. People who worship these idols basically see them as God's representatives on earth. You don't really need to become a popstar to create this vibe. Leo Gura has done it and there are thousands of people who see his word as holy although(!) Leo doesn't intended to be seen like that. You can do the same. I think real religion which I believe is gnosticism does this. Gnosticism teaches to be your own leader instead of following the flock. There are basically two kinds of religion: the flock religions and being your own leader. And when you become your own leader in your life, people will subconsciously pick it up and want to be part of it.

 

These were my own insights but Owen talks about it too from another angle without the holiness thing which is my own insight

 

I. The Detrimental Effects of Desperation and the Speaker's Initial Observations on Relationships

Being desperate and needy will kill attraction and the dynamic in a potential or existing relationship, often causing the other person to withdraw. Even after a wonderful first encounter, neediness can drive someone away.

The speaker initially questioned the value of traditional relationships, particularly marriage, contrasting the perceived negativity of a married "nice guy" being mistreated at home with the freedom and enjoyment of single life, including going out and meeting various people. He wonders why someone would choose a relationship worse than being single.

He acknowledges that having children is a profoundly beautiful and fulfilling experience, surpassing superficial encounters.

The speaker suggests that men in relationships might fixate on what they lack rather than appreciating the intimacy they have. He aims to show how to maintain the positive treatment often received when single, within a relationship.

II. The Rapidly Fluctuating Value in Relationships and the "RS Slip"

A man's value in a relationship can change rapidly and dramatically in real-time.

The concept of the "RS slip" (Relationship Status slip) is introduced, describing a sudden disappearance of attraction. This can be triggered by a moment of low status.

The "RS slip" occurs when someone steps out of the other person's "frame" to reconsider what they truly want, often an emotional rather than a logical shift.

III. The Speaker's Four Factors of Success in Social Interactions

The speaker identifies four crucial elements for success in social interactions, especially dating:

Status hierarchy: Occupying a position of higher status.

Good emotions: Creating an emotional rollercoaster, not just positive emotions.

Challenging the other to seek validation: Not providing approval too easily.

A better place to go: An attractive lifestyle.

Possessing these four factors can lead to being the most popular person in a social setting.

IV. The Lack of "Equity" in Traditional Relationship Investments

The speaker argues that many common investments in a relationship do not build lasting "equity" or value.

Money has no "equity". After an "RS slip," financial contributions can be perceived as manipulation. Wealth alone does not guarantee attraction. In divorce, the partner who didn't earn the money often takes half, demonstrating a lack of perceived equity.

Friendship has no "equity" in romantic relationships. Rapport is often built on perceived value; if that value diminishes, the friendship can unravel. Even helping friends can lead to ingratitude and exploitation if their status changes.

Gifts given with expectations can be seen as manipulative. Only truly unconditional gifts, given without any agenda, are genuine, but even these are viewed through the lens of potential "RS flips".

V. The Importance of "Frame" and "Value" in Attraction

Attraction for women is heavily based on "frame". When a woman is within a man's frame, she adopts many of his personality traits, values, and beliefs.

Men value fluctuates, females value is static; in relationship you get more buffer.

Women within a strong frame are often unable to logically consider leaving until they experience an "RS slip".

Men should focus on creating and maintaining a strong "frame" by demonstrating high "value".

The speaker defines "value" in terms of:

Status

Evoking good emotions (fun)

Not easily giving validation

An attractive lifestyle (better place to go)

Men are encouraged to be the source of their own validation, to be uninhibited and fun.

"Value arbitrage" refers to creating value without necessarily being rich.

In any social interaction, the person with more certainty and social proof dictates the "frame". The speaker demonstrated this by interacting with audience members.

VI. The Pitfalls of "Self-Qualifying" and Neediness

"Self-qualifying" (bragging or trying too hard for approval) and neediness undermine attraction. They erode the pedestal on which someone might have placed you.

VII. The Role of "Swag" and the "Winner Effect"

"Swag" is a constant effort involving access to desirable things, humor, and confidence. Many men lack "swag" by overemphasizing integrity and hard work, which don't directly influence dating success.

The "winner effect" is the feeling of enlightenment the brain experiences from social validation. A high "winner effect" leads to greater confidence, better vocal projection, and ease in social tension. Most men have a low "winner effect".

It's crucial to self-generate the "winner effect" through inner growth, spirituality, goal achievement, and cultivating self-belief, rather than relying on external validation.

VIII. The Impact of Modern Culture on Relationships

Modern culture, characterized by social media and hyper-individualism, puts significant strain on relationships and marriages.

The collectivist structures that historically held marriages together have dissolved. Current structures often pull relationships apart. The speaker refers to this as an "individualist cluster fuck free-for-all".

A "culture war" is ongoing, impacting relationships.

Women in their twenties are often less interested in serious relationships, prioritizing fun and sometimes having financial support through "sugar daddies".

Instagram's AI surveillance system can influence perceptions of relationships by feeding users content aligned with their current mindset, potentially reinforcing negative views if a relationship is struggling.

IX. Understanding the Reticular Activating System (RA)

The speaker explains how the RA filters information based on our beliefs.

This explains why people in a negative "frame" tend to remember negative experiences ("memory state access dependent").

Understanding how one's own RA and others' RAs function is vital for effective communication and navigating relationships. Someone with more "value" can influence another's RA, potentially filtering out other voices, like a partner's.

X. The Roles of Women and the Primacy of Attractiveness

Women bring "flow" into men's lives, teaching them to appreciate the present moment. Men should embrace this instead of solely focusing on being providers.

In contemporary society, attractiveness is paramount for forming and maintaining relationships, more so than just providing and protecting. The traditional emphasis on these latter roles was, according to the speaker, promoted by a "beta male collective".

Men need to learn how to be truly attractive through going out, practicing, and learning from relationship failures.

XI. The Dangers of Drug Use and the Power of Inner Growth

The speaker strongly warns against drug use, highlighting its detrimental effects on the brain.

Genuine awareness and inner growth stem from study, mastery, nature, and meditation.

XII. Maintaining "Frame" in a Relationship

Sustaining a strong personal "frame" is crucial for the longevity of a relationship.

In any social dynamic, the person with greater certainty and social validation dictates the "frame".

Once "frame" is lost, regaining it is difficult.

XIII. Personal Responsibility and Setting the Frame

The speaker emphasizes personal responsibility in relationships and life. Men should stop blaming women or society and take ownership of setting their own "frame".

He criticizes the lack of initiative and self-leadership in many men.

XIV. The Winner Effect and Social Validation Revisited

The "winner effect" is linked to social validation and provides a feeling of relief.

A high "winner effect" contributes to confidence and a strong "frame".

It is vital to cultivate the "winner effect" internally through self-confidence, inner growth, and achieving personal goals.

XV. The State of Modern Relationships and Potential Solutions

The speaker describes the current state of modern relationships as a chaotic "individualist cluster fuck free-for-all".

The traditional supports for relationships ("Chester's fence") have disappeared, making individual attractiveness essential.

He suggests that mainstreaming the principles he teaches (like "swag," "frame," and understanding attraction) could be a potential solution to the "carnage" in modern relationships, advocating for its inclusion in education.

The speaker acknowledges that the current hyper-individualistic culture might lead to a regression towards more controlling societal structures if current trends persist.

In essence, Owen Cook argues that the dynamics of modern relationships have fundamentally shifted, rendering traditional approaches to attraction and relationship maintenance ineffective. He stresses the significance of personal attractiveness, controlling one's own "frame," and grasping the psychological factors that drive attraction and repulsion. He criticizes the absence of societal support for relationships and calls for a re-evaluation of how we understand and teach attraction and relationships.

Edited April 16 by AION

[LordFall]

I'm an INTP and I noticed something similar a few times in social circles with extroverts they were operating on a certain wavelength and I could kinda pretend to be in there for a bit but it was draining so I was always an outsider. The funniest part though is you could see that they weren't really deeply bonding just kinda coping in the same reality and so I didn't really lose much by not fitting in. 

Reminds me of the socialization makes you dumb video. 

I'm creating a form of social circle game that chat gpt helped me figure out, its called gravity game for now.

I can create safety, structure, and direction for myself and others—financially, emotionally, socially. I don’t need to control, because I create gravity.

You’re not trying to control people—you’re attracting aligned ones.
You don’t react to the world—you shape it.  
You don’t ask for loyalty—you inspire it.

Isn't not quite fully working yet but they're interesting ideas. 

[AION]

@LordFall everybody who is laid back is doing “gravity game”  . Personally I call it power-instead-of-force-game. 
 

It is about not tying to control but to put out a certain wave or vibe regardless if it is received or appreciated and without pinging. But the thing is when you find your innermost, and be so authentic; it does really resonate because some people appreciate your rawness.
Sometimes the rawness is too raw and it needs to be more polished to look more like a diamond. 
 

At that point one becomes entitled aka holy and it will create a halo effect. Because you think you are it other people will believe it. It is power of believe.  And the opposite is true too if you believe you ain’t it you will be treated like it. People are like sheep and their go-to is to assume you know yourself better than them knowing you which is actually true. 

[Breathe]

I moved away from the RSD crew over 14 years ago. There is truth in what Owen is saying, but you have to understand his motives and where he's at in his own growth process.

His tactics are based on manipulation, lack authenticity, and do not come from a place of self-love. If you have to try hard to get someone to like you, then you are not loving yourself (this is a complex topic).

Also, not every girl or guy is going to like you. So stop trying to impress them all.

As you grow, you will gravitate towards kind, loving people with similar values and some shared interests.

A lot of what he is talking about is a side effect of growth. Not a way to behave to get and keep someone.

Act with integrity and stop trying so hard. Figure out what you want, do it, be direct and honest, face your fears, take care of your health, and act with integrity; and that will set you leagues apart from others.

A solid partner is going to know what your flaws and weaknesses are. That one will encourage you to keep growing moving forward in the face of adversity.

Edited Saturday at 01:37 PM by Breathe

[Breathe]

I should probably add that there are situations where understanding attraction is very important. There are exceptions, but a woman decides if she is interested in the first few minutes of seeing you interact her as well as with and other people.

If you are in a room with one woman and 10 dudes, you need to stand out. And you're going to need to run some game.

Women are attracted based on biological factors: Is he strong, is he funny, is he assertive, how does he interact with other people. She's screening for someone with a strong chance of survival. These are all indicators.

Women also like love and fun just like the rest of us do. That factors in, but attraction comes first in the early stages and most of the time you have a brief window before she makes a decision. But, like with all things, there are exceptions.

Online dating is one example where your shit needs to be on point. Girls get messages and likes from 100s of dudes. Your profile text, pics, and messages have to be well above average.

There are also very entitled women who just want to be entertained all the time. I stay away from them as they are too young to really know themselves and I just have no interest in them.

[something_else]

36 minutes ago, Breathe said:

I moved away from the RSD crew over 14 years ago. There is truth in what Owen is saying, but you have to understand his motives and where he's at in his own growth process.

His tactics are based on manipulation, lack authenticity, and do not come from a place of self-love. If you have to try hard to get someone to like you, then you are not loving yourself (this is a complex topic).

Also, not every girl or guy is going to like you. So stop trying to impress them all.

As you grow, you will gravitate towards kind, loving people with similar values and some shared interests.

A lot of what he is talking about is a side effect of growth. Not a way to behave to get and keep someone.

Act with integrity and stop trying so hard. Figure out what you want, do it, be direct and honest, face your fears, take care of your health, and act with integrity; and that will set you leagues apart from others.

Just watch his most popular videos on YT. They’re all veryyyy manipulative and very subtly but potently pushing you towards giving him money.

I don’t doubt he makes some good points, but overall I very much agree with you about Owen. Idk about the other RSD dudes as I haven’t seen any

[Breathe]

I used to be an RSD fanboy in the 2010. He has not changed at all. That said, they have a stick style of game and if one wants to get laid they are very effective. But as you mature, you realize that manipulating women is not a meaningful way to live.

Some day you will die. Is that what you want on your tombstone: "He spent is whole life trying to get women to like him"

There are ways to scale back the unethical, manipulative tactics. But you have to ask yourself, do you want to spend all of your free time for the next 1-2 years just to learn to get better with women?

For guys that suck with women, this is a long and tedious journey. And these are skills that require maintenance. If you don't keep practicing you lose these skills very quickly and make the same mistakes you did when you started (but you correct yourself more quickly).

[LordFall]

@AION No I don’t think everyone who is laid back is doing gravity game. To me it means being at the cause not the effect. Plenty of laid back guys have no one really around them I.e they’re like a lost rock in space more than a planet full of life.

I like the oasis in the desert metaphor, creating value for people. Hosting events, being a mentor, creating a business, etc. 

For example if we break down going to a club to hit on women you’re a guy going to some other guys business where people mostly go to dance & drink their problems away. 
 

I’m working on creating a media agency where I’ll help people make content and builds brand to monetize their lifestyle and escape the drudgery of their mostly boring jobs. I have hundreds and hundreds of women that follow me at this point and it’s not done yet but I would like to empower them and myself through this pursuit and that’s what I mean by gravity game. 
 

A lot of ways to do it and see it but I also look at it in terms of Hawkins scale of consciousness where if you’re below 200 you’re destroying energy not creating it which I feel like a lot of people do. 

[Twentyfirst]

Sounds like something from the 48 laws of power

[Miguel1]

More like Hollowness

[LordFall]

@Twentyfirst if it doesn’t appeal to you it won’t work but I would say more it’s systems thinking. You break down the system to make it work in your favour and to the favour of those you wanna have in your life. 
 

An aversion to power will lead you to have little impact on society and I would call it a stage green/blue shadow.

 

@Miguel1 How so?

Edited Monday at 12:27 AM by LordFall

[Miguel1]

@LordFall well, you ain’t socializing with anyone if you are going to make it about depthness, are you?

[LordFall]

@Miguel1 Why not? If you’re the leader of a social circle you can guide your tribe to whatever level of depthness you like and they find value in. 
 

If you socialize on other people’s terms then usually you run into a greatest common denominator problem which usually involves drugs/alcohol, random shallow hobbies or some other meaningless activity yeah. 

[Miguel1]

@LordFall well, good luck talking metaphysics and philosophy in your social circle that you lead

[LordFall]

@Miguel1 I don’t know why you think it’d be particularly hard, we are right now in a metaphysics and philosophy social circle lol. If it was more locally based I’m sure plenty of relationships would form from it.

I host photoshoots and already I know of one couple meeting from it. 

I think it would take you about 2 months to set one up wherever you live. 

Edited Monday at 10:14 PM by LordFall

[Miguel1]

@LordFall And yet, the level of hollowness oftentimes here is unbelieveable. It’s all relative at the end of the day.

Besides, for majority of people, building anything remote to this is not realistic.

You ain’t going to be building a social circle around depthness if you go about meeting people in your day-to-day. It requires like a career, and even then it’s not guaranteed to succeed.

 

[Consept]

On 16/04/2025 at 9:45 PM, AION said:

To friends and to have a good social and dating life you basically have to cater to their emotions, survival and ego to be successful.

Nah i dont agree, i think its important to not be judgemental of peoples beliefs and yes if you attack them people will not like that. However I think its very important to be authentic and also if you do align with truth and people feel that, you will filter out those that dont. So you wont be able to connect with as many people but the connections you do have will be authentic, this will mean letting go of people you may even like or want to be friends with. Also practically I dont think people mind being pushed on their opinions, there is a way to engage where you can have conversations about others beliefs without coming across like youre attacking. The main thing to understand is what is your motivation for pushing them? I found before i wanted them to change because i wanted to connect and needed them to be in my 'reality', but really you can just meet people where they are at and appreciate them for it 

[LordFall]

 

10 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@LordFall And yet, the level of hollowness oftentimes here is unbelieveable. It’s all relative at the end of the day.

Besides, for majority of people, building anything remote to this is not realistic.

You ain’t going to be building a social circle around depthness if you go about meeting people in your day-to-day. It requires like a career, and even then it’s not guaranteed to succeed.

 

Hard disagree on the points. You come at it from a victim mindset. If you're the leader of the social circle the level of "depthness" is based on your leadership skills.

I mean the lesson here is that most people are mostly concerned on survival vs whatever philosophical concept you'd like to discuss. And if you're avoiding that I'd call you a spiritual bypasser! Focus on helping them survive and collectively thriving together and not only will you have a deep social circle in which you're an invaluable leader but also you'll live out thrilling adventures in the meanwhile.

What's more fun than sex and thrilling adventures? 

[Miguel1]

@LordFall Lol.

You are full of contradictions in what you are saying above.

But alright man, we can go with me being in victimhood.

I don’t really have time and interest to be throwing anymore energy into this. As you call it: I’m spiritual bypassing!

You are proving my point.

[Ulax]

23 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@LordFall well, good luck talking metaphysics and philosophy in your social circle that you lead

I see Meetup groups about philosophy a lot