Key to Social Success: Holiness

[AION]

You basically have to find out what is "holy" for that person and just praise that.

I had this gf who was really in Jordan Peterson and she was basically worshiping him. It was obvious to me it was because of her daddy issues so she projected her daddy onto Peterson. It was very dysfunctional and it was getting annoying. So after I while I started commenting on this and after that it went south really fast. 

The bottom line of the thread is this: never attack that thing or person that is holy for the person you are talking to...

In the same way, everybody has their own idols they worship. It doesn't have to be a person, it can also be a concept or belief. Examples of idols

• Jordan Peterson
• Integral model or SD model
• Jesus
• Athlete 
• Ghuru
• Alien consciousness
• Leo Gura
• A particular book/theory
• Preacher etc

It is really a big sin to worship idols and almost everybody does it. So I made the misjudgement that everybody was interested in the truth as me. If you are into truth, it will blow up your social life. To friends and to have a good social and dating life you basically have to cater to their emotions, survival and ego to be successful. It is no different on this forum and here I'm making this topic lol. I think very socially successful people know this. One should observe it to understand it. It can also be clearly seen in certain podcasters, they inherently know this.

You basically have to instill the belief that the other is "holier than thou". Especially with girls if you give her the feeling she is not holy aka not a holy Mary, you are gone so fast. Even if she is a huge slut you have to give her the feeling she is worthy of what is holy aka love/respect but it shouldn't come free because what is free is not appreciated by the masses.

We can also see this with pop stars. People who worship these idols basically see them as God's representatives on earth. You don't really need to become a popstar to create this vibe. Leo Gura has done it and there are thousands of people who see his word as holy although(!) Leo doesn't intended to be seen like that. You can do the same. I think real religion which I believe is gnosticism does this. Gnosticism teaches to be your own leader instead of following the flock. There are basically two kinds of religion: the flock religions and being your own leader. And when you become your own leader in your life, people will subconsciously pick it up and want to be part of it.

 

These were my own insights but Owen talks about it too from another angle without the holiness thing which is my own insight

 

I. The Detrimental Effects of Desperation and the Speaker's Initial Observations on Relationships

Being desperate and needy will kill attraction and the dynamic in a potential or existing relationship, often causing the other person to withdraw. Even after a wonderful first encounter, neediness can drive someone away.

The speaker initially questioned the value of traditional relationships, particularly marriage, contrasting the perceived negativity of a married "nice guy" being mistreated at home with the freedom and enjoyment of single life, including going out and meeting various people. He wonders why someone would choose a relationship worse than being single.

He acknowledges that having children is a profoundly beautiful and fulfilling experience, surpassing superficial encounters.

The speaker suggests that men in relationships might fixate on what they lack rather than appreciating the intimacy they have. He aims to show how to maintain the positive treatment often received when single, within a relationship.

II. The Rapidly Fluctuating Value in Relationships and the "RS Slip"

A man's value in a relationship can change rapidly and dramatically in real-time.

The concept of the "RS slip" (Relationship Status slip) is introduced, describing a sudden disappearance of attraction. This can be triggered by a moment of low status.

The "RS slip" occurs when someone steps out of the other person's "frame" to reconsider what they truly want, often an emotional rather than a logical shift.

III. The Speaker's Four Factors of Success in Social Interactions

The speaker identifies four crucial elements for success in social interactions, especially dating:

Status hierarchy: Occupying a position of higher status.

Good emotions: Creating an emotional rollercoaster, not just positive emotions.

Challenging the other to seek validation: Not providing approval too easily.

A better place to go: An attractive lifestyle.

Possessing these four factors can lead to being the most popular person in a social setting.

IV. The Lack of "Equity" in Traditional Relationship Investments

The speaker argues that many common investments in a relationship do not build lasting "equity" or value.

Money has no "equity". After an "RS slip," financial contributions can be perceived as manipulation. Wealth alone does not guarantee attraction. In divorce, the partner who didn't earn the money often takes half, demonstrating a lack of perceived equity.

Friendship has no "equity" in romantic relationships. Rapport is often built on perceived value; if that value diminishes, the friendship can unravel. Even helping friends can lead to ingratitude and exploitation if their status changes.

Gifts given with expectations can be seen as manipulative. Only truly unconditional gifts, given without any agenda, are genuine, but even these are viewed through the lens of potential "RS flips".

V. The Importance of "Frame" and "Value" in Attraction

Attraction for women is heavily based on "frame". When a woman is within a man's frame, she adopts many of his personality traits, values, and beliefs.

Men value fluctuates, females value is static; in relationship you get more buffer.

Women within a strong frame are often unable to logically consider leaving until they experience an "RS slip".

Men should focus on creating and maintaining a strong "frame" by demonstrating high "value".

The speaker defines "value" in terms of:

Status

Evoking good emotions (fun)

Not easily giving validation

An attractive lifestyle (better place to go)

Men are encouraged to be the source of their own validation, to be uninhibited and fun.

"Value arbitrage" refers to creating value without necessarily being rich.

In any social interaction, the person with more certainty and social proof dictates the "frame". The speaker demonstrated this by interacting with audience members.

VI. The Pitfalls of "Self-Qualifying" and Neediness

"Self-qualifying" (bragging or trying too hard for approval) and neediness undermine attraction. They erode the pedestal on which someone might have placed you.

VII. The Role of "Swag" and the "Winner Effect"

"Swag" is a constant effort involving access to desirable things, humor, and confidence. Many men lack "swag" by overemphasizing integrity and hard work, which don't directly influence dating success.

The "winner effect" is the feeling of enlightenment the brain experiences from social validation. A high "winner effect" leads to greater confidence, better vocal projection, and ease in social tension. Most men have a low "winner effect".

It's crucial to self-generate the "winner effect" through inner growth, spirituality, goal achievement, and cultivating self-belief, rather than relying on external validation.

VIII. The Impact of Modern Culture on Relationships

Modern culture, characterized by social media and hyper-individualism, puts significant strain on relationships and marriages.

The collectivist structures that historically held marriages together have dissolved. Current structures often pull relationships apart. The speaker refers to this as an "individualist cluster fuck free-for-all".

A "culture war" is ongoing, impacting relationships.

Women in their twenties are often less interested in serious relationships, prioritizing fun and sometimes having financial support through "sugar daddies".

Instagram's AI surveillance system can influence perceptions of relationships by feeding users content aligned with their current mindset, potentially reinforcing negative views if a relationship is struggling.

IX. Understanding the Reticular Activating System (RA)

The speaker explains how the RA filters information based on our beliefs.

This explains why people in a negative "frame" tend to remember negative experiences ("memory state access dependent").

Understanding how one's own RA and others' RAs function is vital for effective communication and navigating relationships. Someone with more "value" can influence another's RA, potentially filtering out other voices, like a partner's.

X. The Roles of Women and the Primacy of Attractiveness

Women bring "flow" into men's lives, teaching them to appreciate the present moment. Men should embrace this instead of solely focusing on being providers.

In contemporary society, attractiveness is paramount for forming and maintaining relationships, more so than just providing and protecting. The traditional emphasis on these latter roles was, according to the speaker, promoted by a "beta male collective".

Men need to learn how to be truly attractive through going out, practicing, and learning from relationship failures.

XI. The Dangers of Drug Use and the Power of Inner Growth

The speaker strongly warns against drug use, highlighting its detrimental effects on the brain.

Genuine awareness and inner growth stem from study, mastery, nature, and meditation.

XII. Maintaining "Frame" in a Relationship

Sustaining a strong personal "frame" is crucial for the longevity of a relationship.

In any social dynamic, the person with greater certainty and social validation dictates the "frame".

Once "frame" is lost, regaining it is difficult.

XIII. Personal Responsibility and Setting the Frame

The speaker emphasizes personal responsibility in relationships and life. Men should stop blaming women or society and take ownership of setting their own "frame".

He criticizes the lack of initiative and self-leadership in many men.

XIV. The Winner Effect and Social Validation Revisited

The "winner effect" is linked to social validation and provides a feeling of relief.

A high "winner effect" contributes to confidence and a strong "frame".

It is vital to cultivate the "winner effect" internally through self-confidence, inner growth, and achieving personal goals.

XV. The State of Modern Relationships and Potential Solutions

The speaker describes the current state of modern relationships as a chaotic "individualist cluster fuck free-for-all".

The traditional supports for relationships ("Chester's fence") have disappeared, making individual attractiveness essential.

He suggests that mainstreaming the principles he teaches (like "swag," "frame," and understanding attraction) could be a potential solution to the "carnage" in modern relationships, advocating for its inclusion in education.

The speaker acknowledges that the current hyper-individualistic culture might lead to a regression towards more controlling societal structures if current trends persist.

In essence, Owen Cook argues that the dynamics of modern relationships have fundamentally shifted, rendering traditional approaches to attraction and relationship maintenance ineffective. He stresses the significance of personal attractiveness, controlling one's own "frame," and grasping the psychological factors that drive attraction and repulsion. He criticizes the absence of societal support for relationships and calls for a re-evaluation of how we understand and teach attraction and relationships.

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 PM by AION

[LordFall]

I'm an INTP and I noticed something similar a few times in social circles with extroverts they were operating on a certain wavelength and I could kinda pretend to be in there for a bit but it was draining so I was always an outsider. The funniest part though is you could see that they weren't really deeply bonding just kinda coping in the same reality and so I didn't really lose much by not fitting in. 

Reminds me of the socialization makes you dumb video. 

I'm creating a form of social circle game that chat gpt helped me figure out, its called gravity game for now.

I can create safety, structure, and direction for myself and others—financially, emotionally, socially. I don’t need to control, because I create gravity.

You’re not trying to control people—you’re attracting aligned ones.
You don’t react to the world—you shape it.  
You don’t ask for loyalty—you inspire it.

Isn't not quite fully working yet but they're interesting ideas. 

[AION]

@LordFall everybody who is laid back is doing “gravity game”  . Personally I call it power-instead-of-force-game. 
 

It is about not tying to control but to put out a certain wave or vibe regardless if it is received or appreciated and without pinging. But the thing is when you find your innermost, and be so authentic; it does really resonate because some people appreciate your rawness.
Sometimes the rawness is too raw and it needs to be more polished to look more like a diamond. 
 

At that point one becomes entitled aka holy and it will create a halo effect. Because you think you are it other people will believe it. It is power of believe.  And the opposite is true too if you believe you ain’t it you will be treated like it. People are like sheep and their go-to is to assume you know yourself better than them knowing you which is actually true.