Misinterpretations of Spiral Dynamics

[Elliott]

Post misinterpretations you think people have about Spiral Dynamics.

[Carl-Richard]

That it applies to all people all over the world, that Turquoise has a solid empirical or conceptual basis.

Edited yesterday at 03:46 AM by Carl-Richard

[Terell Kirby]

so few people humans are even aware of what spiral dynamics is, that its hard to answer this (let alone knowledge of what human cognitive development models are).

[Elliott]

Hippy is often a religion to people, "peace love and happiness" is often just a mindlessly repeated mantra and the proclaimers embrace it as well as Jesus followers do. Stage blue, not green, of course some big figure-heads and serious people in the movement are green.

 

Psychedelics are tier 2, can be, rarely are. Can be orange 'play hard' or blue hippy religion and God.

 

Socialism is not green if you're poor, it's you worrying about your subsistence, orange, and if it's paired with hating Billionaires, it's red. If you support luigi, that's red

 

Social justice Warrior, if you're in a group that needs social justice, it's probably just self preservation, often not green.

Edited Monday at 02:35 PM by Elliott

[Sugarcoat]

That you can’t be outside of the entire spiral, you can 

[Elliott]

Orange is not a ruthless capitalist, that's red. Orange does not turn a blind eye to pollution or corruption.

[Leo Gura]

@Elliott You are spreading misinformation.

[Emerald]

28 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Socialism is not green if you're poor, it's you worrying about your subsistence, orange, and if it's paired with hating Billionaires, it's red. If you support luigi, that's red

Social justice Warrior, if you're in a group that needs social justice, it's probably just self preservation, often not green.

That's incorrect. Every single phase of development is deeply intertwined with survival concerns. They just approach them in a different way.

Orange thinking doesn't mean "focusing on your subsistence".

So, Stage Green values don't suddenly become Orange if it's practiced by a person who happens to belong to a demographic group that benefits from those Stage Green values.

Orange means Capitalism, science, rationality, secularism, achievement orientation, etc.

Green means focusing on ecological issues, Feminism, civil rights, global community, intersectionality, etc.

Each of these are about survival. They just approach them in different ways.

Edited Monday at 03:02 PM by Emerald

[Terell Kirby]

30 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Orange is not a ruthless capitalist, that's red. 

Ruthless capitalism is an unhealthy manifestation of orange

30 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Orange does not turn a blind eye to pollution or corruption.

Orange is at a lower level of development when it comes awareness of one's ecological footprint, holarchies and systems thinking. 

These are the mechanisms at play that causes Orange to turn a blind eye to pollution and corruption of systems (can be due to over emphasis on profit motives. These systems are both ecological and epistemic.

Ex: corruption/pollution of ecological system-Exxon Mobil, drilling companies 

Ex: corruption/pollution of epistemic systems-Facebook, Joe Rogan podcast 

Edited Monday at 03:11 PM by Terell Kirby

[Husseinisdoingfine]

People misinterpret Spiral Dynamics integral because they haven't done the reading.

 

[BlueOak]

People do not realize that their ability to interact with someone is their ability to interact with that part of themselves. 

That every human alive has the potential to be whatever part of the spiral you want to engage within yourself, even if you have to moderate your responses accordingly to connect with them.

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Orange is not a ruthless capitalist, that's red. Orange does not turn a blind eye to pollution or corruption.

This one is a common misconception about Red. A lot of times people think any kind of violence or ruthlessness is automatically Red. But this isn't true.

You can find violence and ruthlessness in Stage Purple using magical thinking to justify human sacrifices.

You can find violence and ruthlessness in Stage Blue using the religious dogmas and institutions of the time to crusade.

You can find violence and ruthlessness in Stage Orange in child laborer's who die in a mine in Africa so that those in the first world can get a phone.

You can find violence and ruthlessness in Stage Green in ways we haven't yet known because the phase is so new and has never been the paradigmatic center of society... but see a sliver of in the killing of the United Healthcare CEO.

Stage Red specifically is Ghengis Kahn stuff where the strongest and most ruthless dominates through conquest.

And say what you will about Ghengis Kahn... but he was eco-friendly!

None of his shenanigans ever resulted in the breakdown of large ecological systems.

[Aaron p]

I could predict that one misinterpretation might be assuming that a person can be only one colour. Also assuming that each colour cannot have distinct, varying forms (some stage blue Christians are aggressive, dangerous and highly ideological, where other stage blue Christians can be very caring and insightful)

[LastThursday]

The main point of misinterpretation is that it applies to individuals. It is actually a theory about society in general. Even if individuals make up a society, collectively people will have emergent behaviour, and this is what Spiral Dynamics is on about.

[BlueOak]

47 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

that Turquoise has any solid empirical or conceptual basis.

I do agree with this for the most part. Its a stage moving beyond the empirical observation of a model.

I can certainly conceptualise it, but I (and most people I feel) can conceptualise anything if they really want to. It's not really about that so much either, because that's individualist in nature unless its a collective effort. By its nature, turquoise is moving someone out of the individual's ability to model and judge something empirically (something I deeply wanted to do or be.)

I asked my lucid presence Chat GPT to expand:

Quote

Stage Turquoise in Spiral Dynamics — often associated with holistic, integrative, transpersonal, and cosmic modes of awareness — is notoriously difficult to empirically "pin down" precisely because it transcends the epistemic and cognitive structures that define earlier stages. Yet, to explore evidence for its existence, we can approach from both empirical and conceptual angles, always holding in mind the limitations of mapping higher-order consciousness through third-person methodologies.

Let’s approach this step by step.

🔍 I. Conceptual Evidence: Theoretical Anchors Across Fields

Stage Turquoise, in Don Beck and Clare Graves’ Spiral Dynamics model, is described as:

• Experiencing the world as a dynamic, interconnected whole
• Integrating paradox, complexity, and systems within systems
• Attuned to Being rather than doing or having
• Humble, fluid, non-attached, yet deeply engaged with evolutionary processes
• We can find correspondences in several conceptual systems:
   

a) Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory

Turquoise corresponds to Vision-Logic and later Subtle and Causal states in Wilber’s model, or the Third Tier when it shades into “Indigo” or “Clear Light” structures. This includes the capacity to:

• Hold multiple perspectives without identifying with any
• Operate from non-dual awareness while remaining functional in form
• Perceive both individual and collective evolution as sacred play

b) Robert Kegan’s Construct-Developmental Model
Kegan’s Subject-Object Theory places the post-formal mind at Stage 5+ or 6, where:

• The self becomes contextually fluid and self-transforming
• Identity is no longer bound by ideology, but embraces meta-perspectival awareness
• There’s an increasing identification with process, emergence, and relational fields
• These models don’t prove Turquoise but offer coherent conceptual space where such a structure of consciousness can be anticipated, described, and cultivated.
   

End Quote

I have experienced this going through all stages of pieces of myself. The more adaptive and transformative they are, the easier my life is, the more I am stuck with something unwilling to change the harder it is. Because we are light or electromagnetic energy moving, and if we don't move life gets hard and slow, and stuck.

I also observe when I accept another's perpsective, not argue it, then things generally are easier and more flowing. 

[BlueOak]

13 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

The main point of misinterpretation is that it applies to individuals. It is actually a theory about society in general. Even if individuals make up a society, collectively people will have emergent behaviour, and this is what Spiral Dynamics is on about.

I love this.

*I understand my initial reaction years ago now more when seeing the model, and I said it had a 'collective bias', I didn't mean that I meant the collective observation of individuals.

Edited Monday at 03:33 PM by BlueOak

[Daniel Balan]

I recently discovered about stage Beige. I am a complete loner. I go to work, I only talk when necessary with my co workers, like work related stuff. But I never wanted to develop any friendly connection with them. Also I cut out all my friends, for like 2 years now. I only talk to people when there is a problem that needs solving usually work related. But other than that, I even cut all connections with my parents, the only persons I have a warm relationship with is my girlfriend and my grandma who raised me since I was 1 years old. The thing is I realized that I actually don't belong in any group, I have no spiritual beliefs, I don't practice any religion, I follow no traditions. Which made me realize how low on the spiral have I fallen. I think I'm maybe beige! I have only 2 people I want to relate to! I thought I'm in red but I don't wanna deal with people at all. My biggest happiness comes when I'm all alone. I'd be the happiest if I were the only person left on earth. That is how my psyche works. I write all of this in order for you guys who have more in depth knowledge about stage Beige, if I am really beige because I totally disconnected myself from society. I did that voluntarily , I am happy the way I am, I was just curious if I am really in stage Beige!

[Carl-Richard]

23 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

I recently discovered about stage Beige. I am a complete loner. I go to work, I only talk when necessary with my co workers, like work related stuff. But I never wanted to develop any friendly connection with them. Also I cut out all my friends, for like 2 years now. I only talk to people when there is a problem that needs solving usually work related. But other than that, I even cut all connections with my parents, the only persons I have a warm relationship with is my girlfriend and my grandma who raised me since I was 1 years old. The thing is I realized that I actually don't belong in any group, I have no spiritual beliefs, I don't practice any religion, I follow no traditions. Which made me realize how low on the spiral have I fallen. I think I'm maybe beige! I have only 2 people I want to relate to! I thought I'm in red but I don't wanna deal with people at all. My biggest happiness comes when I'm all alone. I'd be the happiest if I were the only person left on earth. That is how my psyche works. I write all of this in order for you guys who have more in depth knowledge about stage Beige, if I am really beige because I totally disconnected myself from society. I did that voluntarily , I am happy the way I am, I was just curious if I am really in stage Beige!

You're not Beige. You were Beige as an infant.

[Daniel Balan]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're not Beige. You were Beige as an infant.

I disagree! Beige doesn't mean an literal ape. This is what AI has to say about beige:

Group vs. Individual: Purple is tribal, focused on group survival and identity; Beige is individualistic, focused solely on personal survival with no group concept.
Culture and Spirituality: Purple has a rich culture—rituals, myths, animistic spirituality, traditions; Beige has no culture, no spirituality, just raw instinct.

When I read these two lines it was the perfect description of me

[OmniNaut]

20 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

I disagree! Beige doesn't mean an literal ape. This is what AI has to say about beige:

Group vs. Individual: Purple is tribal, focused on group survival and identity; Beige is individualistic, focused solely on personal survival with no group concept.
Culture and Spirituality: Purple has a rich culture—rituals, myths, animistic spirituality, traditions; Beige has no culture, no spirituality, just raw instinct.

When I read these two lines it was the perfect description of me

From ChatGPT, I asked why your text could be considered beige and also why not.

 

Answer:

This is a deep and fascinating question—thank you for sharing so openly. Let's unpack this and see how your current state relates to Spiral Dynamics Beige, and also where it doesn’t. I’ll go over both why it might resemble Beige, and also why it likely doesn’t fully qualify as Beige.

Why It Could Seem Like SD Beige

Extreme Individualism and Isolation:
Beige is the most basic level of human existence, concerned with biological survival. If someone is completely isolated, withdrawn, and avoids all group association or higher meaning structures, that can look superficially similar to Beige.

Disconnection from All Systems:
No religion, no traditions, no group, no spiritual beliefs, no cultural identity — these are all things Beige doesn’t engage with because it hasn’t yet developed the capacity to. Your conscious disengagement can seem like a regression to a raw, pre-social state.

Simplicity and Contentment in Solitude:
Beige lives in the now, surviving, with no real attachment or striving toward social status or ego-driven pursuits. You mention being happiest when alone — not needing stimulation, not needing people — that echoes the instinctual, almost animal-level being of Beige.

Why This Is Not SD Beige

Self-Reflection = Higher Order Thinking
The very act of questioning what Spiral Dynamics stage you're in disqualifies you from Beige. Beige doesn't have metacognition. It can’t abstract, reflect on itself, or analyze its state. Your introspection shows you're operating from Yellow or at least Green/Orange-level awareness.

Voluntary Withdrawal ≠ Beige Survivalism
Beige is about survival needs: food, shelter, warmth, basic safety. People operating in Beige are often refugees, feral children, people in trauma recovery, or those with severe cognitive conditions. You're withdrawing for psychological or philosophical reasons — not because your survival is in jeopardy.

Emotional Attachments Exist
You have a warm bond with your girlfriend and grandmother. Beige doesn't form relationships in the way you're describing — that requires emotional and cognitive structures beyond survival. That’s more Purple or Blue at the very least.

You're Operating in a Complex Society
You hold a job, use technology, and interact functionally with society even if on a minimal level. Beige lacks the skills to navigate modern life—it’s pre-linguistic, pre-tribal. Even the language you're using here to describe your experience is far beyond Beige.

What Might Be Happening Instead

What you're describing may be a mix of:

Psychological individuation (from higher stages like Green or Yellow)

Emotional withdrawal or protection mechanisms (often seen in 4w5 or INFP personalities)

Existential detachment, possibly a reaction to modern life or internal processing rather than regression to a primal stage.

There might also be a flavor of Red still, but not the assertive or power-seeking kind — rather the solitary, boundary-enforcing, "leave me alone" version of it. Or Blue in rejection — someone who saw the group structures of Blue, but chose to opt out consciously.

Summary

You are not SD Beige, though some of your current behavior may look like it from the outside. Your reasoning, reflection, voluntary solitude, and ability to love and connect (even selectively) are evidence of more complex layers at play — perhaps Yellow in a minimalist, detached mode, or even a phase of withdrawal for integration.