God vs Devil

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

should we also deconstruct skepticism,

You shouldn't do anything. But yes if you want to arrive at truth then you should deconstruct skepticism. Only if you should arrive at truth .but who said you should arrive to truth? 

See what I'm saying ?

Why can't you enjoy being clueless? 

4 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

and if we should then how can it be done? 

Anything you can't see ..touch ..smell ..taste..feel or experience is not true .

If you say " but I also experience these things in a dream and the dream is illusory "..

The answer is that dreams are NOT illusory .they are as real as "real life ".

Truth is just what is .

[Ishanga]

On 4/12/2025 at 3:55 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

If everything is presumably God, how can the devil exist? Is the devil also all powerful in his deception? Then how can an enlightened person so self assuredly claim that he so easily overcame this all powerful deception?

How does he know for certain that it's not just another trick by the devil that made him think that he's "god" and that now he knows everything?

Does Enlightenment remove all doubt from the system?

God=Absolute=All Potential and Possibility, so some call this God vs Devil, with the general understanding that God is Good, Love, Kindness, positive attributes, Devil the opposite, Hate, Cruelty, Badness, negative attributes, in general nature this all plays out for survival purposes, the Tiger eats that Deer to survive not out of malice or hate, and on and on it goes, its different for Humans, we have more choice available to Us, the Ability to Respond and Free Will, yes we have to kill to survive too, to eat the plant or animal or whatever to survive and feed our bodies but we don't have to overcome others to live a so called better life, to use others and defeat others to live a better life, we can help, uplift, support, love others and see/experience then not as others but as a part of ourselves and make the whole world a  more empowering place to live and Be!

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Someone here

That's quite simplistic. I guess I want a better established ontology.

But if I deconstruct skepticism wouldn't I just believe anything? 

Edited April 13 by Anton Rogachevski

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

That's quite simplistic. I guess I want a better established ontology.

You can't have correct ontology without getting your epistemology right first . It's like you want to eat the dessert before the main dish. 

12 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

But if I deconstruct skepticism wouldn't I just believe anything? 

No. Belief is not required at all .why should have Beliefs about truth when you are directly experiencing truth right now ?

And don't tell me this is obvious as fuck and so what ...because you don't get it yet .its right in front of you but you still don't get it .

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Someone here

So experience just is - sounds like phenomenological ontology. Where's the epistemology here? 

Why do you call your experience truth? What does it mean for it to be truth? How do you define "Truth"?

No siree nothing obvious at all, or else I wouldn't post this topic. 

Edited April 13 by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

22 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

God=Absolute=All Potential and Possibility, so some call this God vs Devil, with the general understanding that God is Good, Love, Kindness, positive attributes, Devil the opposite, Hate, Cruelty, Badness, negative attributes, in general nature this all plays out for survival purposes, the Tiger eats that Deer to survive not out of malice or hate, and on and on it goes, its different for Humans, we have more choice available to Us, the Ability to Respond and Free Will, yes we have to kill to survive too, to eat the plant or animal or whatever to survive and feed our bodies but we don't have to overcome others to live a so called better life, to use others and defeat others to live a better life, we can help, uplift, support, love others and see/experience then not as others but as a part of ourselves and make the whole world a  more empowering place to live and Be!

So in your view the Devil is not a problem at all? There's no challenge to overcome his deception? Is there devilish deception?

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

So in your view the Devil is not a problem at all? There's no challenge to overcome his deception? Is there devilish deception?

Its a matter of Consciousness, if You highly Conscious, then You have great Clarity, then there is no more Maya or Illusion to what is the Reality, you know the Reality as it is, no belief, no guessing, no deception, from this You choose how to Respond to it within Yourself, You can choose to Suffer it or be Blissed out by it, if Your intouch with Truth/Reality more than likely You'll be Blissed out by it!

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

So experience just is .

You are saying it like "meh ..experience just is ...so fucking what ".

Boy do you realize there is nothing else that you can say you know about reality?  Today the electricity has been shut down in my city for two hours .I couldn't cook or even drink cold water .I wondered where does energy come from ? From food ? Where does food come from? From nature ? Where does nature come from ? Go ahead and squeeze your brain into aches and try to come up with an answer .

Energy doesn't get created nor destroyed. Didn't you take that in physics class in middle school ?

Energy/nature / reality/ God etc ...JUST IS.

 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Someone here

Dunno what you mean by "energy" or "nature", haven't we just agreed that there's just experience? 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

@Someone here

Dunno what you mean by "energy" or "nature", haven't we just agreed that there's just experience? 

They're are synonymous. You can call it cheesecake if you want . Don't get lost in what is the right name to slap on top reality .

you think you are "Anton Rogachevski "? That's a label that was sticked on you when you were born .you could've been called Shakira or Katy Perry. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Someone here 

"Reality" how does that relate to experience? I don't know if it exists. 

Names are meaningless beast noises. I don't think anything at all. There's just experience. I guess I can live with that. I think it's too optimistic to hope for an ontology beyond that.

Edited April 13 by Anton Rogachevski

[Someone here]

Where is this going ?

Locate the fucking truth in your experience right now and quit playing .

High fives!

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

God=Absolute=All Potential and Possibility, so some call this God vs Devil, with the general understanding that God is Good, Love, Kindness, positive attributes, Devil the opposite, Hate, Cruelty, Badness, negative attributes, in general nature this all plays out for survival purposes, the Tiger eats that Deer to survive not out of malice or hate, and on and on it goes, its different for Humans, we have more choice available to Us, the Ability to Respond and Free Will, yes we have to kill to survive too, to eat the plant or animal or whatever to survive and feed our bodies but we don't have to overcome others to live a so called better life, to use others and defeat others to live a better life, we can help, uplift, support, love others and see/experience then not as others but as a part of ourselves and make the whole world a  more empowering place to live and Be!

It's a question of species. Zebras aren't evil among themselves, but chimpanzees are, and very much so. The difference seems to be the existence of a hierarchy, which translates into reproductive options. In humans, this becomes more sophisticated, but it's essentially the same.

If you were 18 years old and in a tribe, you wouldn't care about anything except the hierarchy, since that's your genetic programming. And that would make you evil. And being evil, you would do things like kill or torture, and that would generate a violent response, and a cycle of evil and war would begin, as it always does. This evil would accumulate and give rise to civilizations built on human evil, war and slavery.

[VeganAwake]

On 4/12/2025 at 2:55 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

Does Enlightenment remove all doubt from the system?

It reveals that there never was a system. 

It reveals the concepts of good evil; heaven hell; god devil, were just stories used to console scared humans and help them feel better about unknowable reality 

❤️ 

[Anton Rogachevski]

5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It reveals that there never was a system. 

It reveals the concepts of good evil; heaven hell; god devil, were just stories used to console scared humans and help them feel better about unknowable reality 

❤️ 

Cool! : )

By system I meant the psyche. So an enlightened person feels 100% sure he's got it, he has 100% Truth and he doesn't doubt it anymore?

[ExploringReality]

God is the Devil. You are the Devil. The Devil is You. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

@ExploringReality

How do you know?

[Osaid]

Doubt would require something other than you, like a "devil", or "someone causing thinking", or "someone causing experience", etc. etc.

The doubt is the resulting questioning of experience, or the appearance that something other than experience is hiding behind experience (like a devil). It's just a matter of letting all the dualistic perceptual knots "untie" via meditation or contemplation.

Therefore, enlightenment wouldn't be about knowing there is a devil and then defeating it, in the same way that removing the belief in Santa wouldn't be about knowing that there is Santa and then eventually defeating him. Both of those are the same belief or duality: that there is a devil and Santa. Babies aren't strong enough to defeat Santa or the devil, and for them, there isn't either. It's honestly about seeing that you never experienced it.

Edited Thursday at 06:07 AM by Osaid

[VeganAwake]

17 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Cool! : )

By system I meant the psyche. So an enlightened person feels 100% sure he's got it, he has 100% Truth and he doesn't doubt it anymore?

Nobody knows everything.

I can personally guarantee that.

If you are convinced otherwise, I would check into that belief deeply and maybe self reflect on how it arose.

Nobody can explain the entirety of the universe and or all of creation......it becomes theory or educated guess work at best!

The idea of "truth" is a human concept..........it insinuates that there is also something "false"........nothing is actually false.......but there can be misunderstandings and phenomenon simply unknown to the human species because such occurance was prior to its existence or even beyond its level of comprehension.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with knowing everything.

❤️ 

[ExploringReality]

@Anton Rogachevski

Because there is no other from God. One hand is the devil, the other is God, but these are games God plays with itself as you would right now clapping your hands and playing against each other.