Leo, do you think psychedelics should be legal/decriminalsied?

[SamC]

I read your blogpost and wondered if you think legalising psychedleics also isn't something we should't do?

@Leo Gura

Edited April 10 by SamC

[Leo Gura]

Hard to say. Ideally they would be decriminalized but not marketed and commercialized like weed. I don't like the commercial weed industry.

Edited April 10 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

Spanish way is quite good, psychedelic are legal but almost nobody knows it, the sites where are sold are few and you have to search carefully to find them. There are also ceremonies and that, not just with Ayahuasca but with phenetylamides and LSD mixed for example, groups therapies and that. 

About weed, there are clubs where you can buy and use but it's also marginal, not public. They are very discreet and in the moment when they are too public problems come. About weed producers, it's forbidden, but police has not a department in charge of investigating weed producers. If there's a complaint from the electric company, they investigate. If not, they don't. So you can produce if you pay for electricity, but that limits production and makes it difficult to make a profit. You have to be very efficient. It's an opaque but functional system.

[Leo Gura]

Problem is that in the US any legalized drug is marketed with hyper-capitalist zeal.

The marketing of drugs should be made illegal. It's crazy to allow marketing of weed.

Edited April 11 by Leo Gura

[Vynce]

I believe the way they are going with Esketamine here in europe seems quite reasonable. Only allowing for treatment resistant depression and only with professional guidance. 

I wonder what indication would allow such a procedure for 5-meo. Existential nihilism?

[vibv]

@Leo Gura Regarding your blog post about the recreational use of drugs and their criminalization (or lack thereof):

I strongly hold the belief that it is at the least equally wrong to deal with drug users or addicts as if they're criminals. That's a completely backwards approach (not talking about you, but the so-called "War On Drugs").

BUT I also agree with your point that a complete deregulation is also a fundamentally wrong approach.

There are 2 ways to completely mishandle the situation with drugs: 1. To just let it do its own thing and deregulate everything and 2. to criminalize harmless drug users or especially addicts that are in need of help — other ways of help we haven't even discovered yet, because our current way's success rates are ridiculous. It's also wrong to force anyone to become clean.

Also: There are many many people that use drugs without being addicts. But those are the ones you hear of the least, which is a shame because their experiences could help us the most to find better ways to deal with the matter.

What's really needed in my view is a whole new CULTURE of drugs. One that neither downplays their dangers nor treats their users as outcasts.

Our huge problem is that we need to find ways to handle drugs with intelligence. This is an open question — individually as well as collectively.

Not every drug use that's not spiritual is wrong. But addiction certainly is. So we need to find ways to keep the positives and lessen the danger for it to spiral out of control for someone.

There are no easy answers! Not even the answer "use drugs only spiritually". I think drugs are a hugely fascinating aspect of this reality and of being human. This is a hard, but extremely juicy problem.

I've always been fascinated with drugs my whole life. I also experienced their downsides and dangers first- and secondhand. I myself was lucky not to have my life destroyed due to them (but I've watched others do so) and I still struggle to find the best way to handle them with all due respect and integrate them into my life. But I refuse to accept any easy answers here.

In an advanced society we'll have systems and a culture in place that prevents harm as best as it can while maximizing the upsides. No judgement but also not naively viewing them as harmless toys. Drugs are a very serious matter. And those are often best approached with Consciousness, Intelligence, Love but also sophistication and not one-size-fits-all solutions.

Edited April 11 by vibv

[vibv]

  On 4/11/2025 at 7:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Problem is that in the US any legalized drug is marketed with hyper-capitalist zeal.

The marketing of drugs should be made illegal. It's crazy to allow marketing of weed.

Drugs and capitalism are a really dangerous and bad combination. It should be illegal to sell drugs for maximizing profit in any way shape or form.

[Breakingthewall]

The clearest example is tobacco, an addictive substance, clearly carcinogenic, which has also been treated with additives to improve its combustion and make it even more addictive. Advertised everywhere, creating several generations of addicts and millions of cancer cases.

In fact, the birth of advertising as we know it today comes with tobacco. It was Froid's nephew who had an idea at a feminist demonstration to promote tobacco among women.

[Apparition of Jack]

I think making them legal in a medical context makes sense; that way you give people access to their therapeutic benefits whilst also not letting some depressed dropout fry his brain with LSD or something.

[Lyubov]

I think they should be left in a gray area legally and left to psychologists and spiritual teachers to lead the way with. I don’t think they should be super illegal but definitely not sold freely by shops. Magic mushrooms and ayahuasca are legal in Brasil and it seems like they aren’t abused or used wrong here. 

[Nemra]

I have to admit that doing psychedelics early in one's life would be quite harmful.

I wanted to do psychedelics when I was depressed and jobless years ago when I learned about them, but luckily I didn't have money, and they're illegal where I'm from, which is not to imply that their being illegal is right.

I would have abused them without being conscious of and focusing on my feelings and the problems I had at that time.

However, my enthusiasm remained, and I got clearheaded about how I would get and use them.

My only way was to develop myself so that I could afford them.

Ironically, my first trip showed me how much I had deluded myself about my job. It is really hard to focus on my job after having it revealed how boring it is, although necessary.

Edited April 11 by Nemra

[integration journey]

  On 4/11/2025 at 7:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Problem is that in the US any legalized drug is marketed with hyper-capitalist zeal.

The marketing of drugs should be made illegal. It's crazy to allow marketing of weed.

I got a weed company ad in my mail here in Oregon a couple of weeks ago! 

[Hardkill]

I think that they should be decriminalized/legalized for only medical or spiritual uses. 

I didn't realize beforehand that decriminalizing/legalizing psychedelics for recreational use turned out to be a mistake until I found out what's been happening in places like Oregon.

That being said, I still believe that the penalties for drug offenses on black, brown, and poor people in America are still too harsh and unjust. 

[PurpleTree]

  On 4/11/2025 at 6:15 PM, Hardkill said:

I think that they should be decriminalized/legalized for only medical or spiritual uses. 

I didn't realize beforehand that decriminalizing/legalizing psychedelics for recreational use turned out to be a mistake until I found out what's been happening in places like Oregon.

That being said, I still believe that the penalties for drug offenses on black, brown, and poor people in America are still too harsh and unjust. 

What happened in Oregon?

  On 4/11/2025 at 7:46 AM, Vynce said:

I believe the way they are going with Esketamine here in europe seems quite reasonable. Only allowing for treatment resistant depression and only with professional guidance. 

I wonder what indication would allow such a procedure for 5-meo. Existential nihilism?

No i can’t agree. Then you have go through a doctor etc. 

[Hardkill]

  On 4/11/2025 at 7:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Problem is that in the US any legalized drug is marketed with hyper-capitalist zeal.

The marketing of drugs should be made illegal. It's crazy to allow marketing of weed.

If the legal marketing of recreational use of weed was a mistake, then I'd say that the marketing of alcoholic beverages has also been a terrible mistake for our society. Obviously outlawing alcohol failed miserably before, but there should be rules and regulations that enforce great restrictions on marketing alcohol to the public just like how there are for all nicotine-based products.

I usually don't like shaming or judging others who are not bad people, but perhaps stigmatizing recreational drug use and regularly drinking alcohol is one of those things that needs to be done.

[Hardkill]

  On 4/11/2025 at 6:18 PM, PurpleTree said:

What happened in Oregon?

Look at the video on it on a new post that Leo made yesterday on his blog.

Unfortunately, the decriminalization of drugs in Oregon has caused a serious spike in homelessness and joblessness in the state.

Edited April 11 by Hardkill

[Nemra]

  On 4/11/2025 at 6:15 PM, Hardkill said:

I think that they should be decriminalized/legalized for only medical or spiritual uses. 

How would they know if it's going to be used for spiritual purposes?

How would they define spirituality?

I think not even most people who are in spiritual circles use or even like psychedelics.

[Vynce]

  On 4/11/2025 at 6:18 PM, PurpleTree said:

What happened in Oregon?

No i can’t agree. Then you have go through a doctor etc. 

I mean the illegal way stays nonetheless. But with a doctor you can support a lot of people, who simple don’t want to have the uncertainty and shadiness of illegal substances. Maybe there will be special psychiatrists for that. 

But then, the return on investment for ‚mystic-psychiatrists’ is super low on the eyes of universities or governments. So it’s probably fantasy no matter what. 

I’m just thinking out loud..

Edited April 11 by Vynce

[Vynce]

  On 4/11/2025 at 6:37 PM, Nemra said:

How would they know if it's going to be used for spiritual purposes?

How would they define spirituality?

I think not even most people who are in spiritual circles use or even like psychedelics.

Yeah given the high risks with most psychedelics (compared to other means of spirituality), it will probably stay only reserved for ‚super treatment resistant‘ patients.

[PurpleTree]

  On 4/11/2025 at 7:12 PM, Vynce said:

I mean the illegal way stays nonetheless. But with a doctor you can support a lot of people, who simple don’t want to have the uncertainty and shadiness of illegal substances. Maybe there will be special psychiatrists for that. 

But then, the return on investment for ‚mystic-psychiatrists’ is super low on the eyes of universities or governments. So it’s probably fantasy no matter what. 

I’m just thinking out loud..

We already have some lsd therapy in my country with a doctor. But it should be legal imo. Because one of my biggest fears and paranoias while tripping was always the „law“ .