What are the odds that you, an average dude, is Tier 2? Not very high.

[Carl-Richard]

It's said that 1-2% of the population is Tier 2. Let's say you stumbled across this forum 6 months ago and you started learning about Spiral Dynamics, and now the concept of Tier 2 seems to make a lot of sense to you. It seems very wise and noble and all that. That said, you only started learning about the model 6 months ago. Advancing through a stage takes decades.

Let's say you have spent 5 years on this forum and Tier 2 seems to make more and more sense to you and you notice that your understanding of it has deepened over time. Still, advancing through a stage takes decades. And maybe you realize that there is more to come and that you maybe didn't understand it all that well before when you had just learned about it.

People on this forum come from all over the world. Let's assume you're at the stage where 40% of the world population is at, the most populous stage: Blue. That's still an optimistic estimate; "being average". You can be either above or below that. But let's assume you are above that: Orange is 30% of the world population. If you are not below that, it seems increasingly likely that you are within Orange. Put in another way: 90% of the world population are in or below Orange. Now, if you are above that (if you are Green), you are in the top 10% of the world.

Let's assume that you, an average guy, is in the top 10% of development in the world; a true Greenie. Phew! Now... are you a part of those who just recently stumbled onto Green, or are a truly mature, deeply steeped, aged and refined Green? Did Green even seem familiar to you when you first learned about SD, or was it something "those other people" did — those "hippies and New Agers" — and that you had to "go back and integrate it" in order to "transcend it"? Maybe Green is something you have to grow into for the next decade? "Who knows?"

Anyways, there are probably fewer numbers on that, but let's assume that out of the top 10%, the first 6% are new Greens while the top 4% are mature Greens. So, let's assume you are at the top 4% of development in the world. Now, and really only now, do you have a realistic chance of "stumbling onto" Yellow and truly resonating with it in such a way that you will develop towards it in actuality, and not just adopt a low-resolution, stereotyped, Temu.com version that everybody can parrot off after reading the first Google Images result they see of those graphs made by Wilber and maybe some knock-offs neatly explaining the model.

And that's you developing towards Yellow, which yes, takes decades. Maybe in a decade, you are truly in the top 1-2%, in Tier 2. Unless of course, you were always in the top 1-2% and Yellow made perfect sense to you, Green seemed almost boring because of how familiar it is and the decades you spent there, Orange is of course perfectly integrated into your bones, having had a long career within that world, and of course Blue lies at your very foundation. If this does not sound familiar, if you have the even slightest doubt that you are a "Tier 2 thinker", most likely, you are not.

"But how can that be possible? Tier 2 seems so cool, I can speak the language, I can list off the qualities, I can parrot the talking points, I know the authors, I even do psychedelics". Well, while that might be true, and while that might even help you develop, anybody else who has known about these things for 6 months, or well, read that fancy Google Image graph, can do the same things.

The starting assumption that anybody should have; despite how many Actualized.org videos you have watched, despite how many hours you have spent on self-development, despite how intellectually curious and open and intuitively and holistically-minded you think you are as a person; is that you are not special. And to say that is not pessimism, because you can give whatever complicated sounding argument for how you truly understand Yellow, and it will change nothing, because I am willing to bet you have virtually nothing to show for it. Virtually nothing in the real world reflects it. It's only on paper, only in ideas, not integrated, not a part of your environment, not a part of your daily work. And if it is, good for you, but even then, you can have the 6-month Temu version.

Even if you disagree with the specifics or indeed think that I'm too pessimistic, this has become more clear to me as I've met more people and spent more time in different places: that these ways of thinking that many call "Tier 2" are firstly nearly everywhere if you just know where to look (e.g. in many places in academia), that people are able to take on these ideas and present them clearly when you would otherwise want to say "oh but you're just a normie", that when people come across these ideas and start to wield them, they do not change much, it's mainly the words that change and maybe some learned behaviors that ChatGPT could teach you in a 5-bullet point list. True development is not about words, not about regurgitating talking points you have memorized, not about how many videos you have watched or even books you have read (although they can help), but how much you have lived. Life is where development happens; the theater of your mind and anything else is secondary.

Edited April 11 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

The key to identify Tier 2 is that a mind at Tier 2 truly understands that no one worldview is strictly correct, so it seeks to integrate many worldviews, and it understands that there is a hierarchy of worldviews based on development level and that each level serves its purpose and should not and cannot be eliminated or reduced away. Tier 2 understands that the mind needs to progress up stages, not just leap to its right view. The Tier 2 mind doesn't engage in the worldview battles of the Tier 1 worldviews because it's after a higher synthesis and meta-understanding.

And then of course this understanding can be embodied to various degrees.

You can't really learn this from ChatGPT because a Tier 1 mind will still be so attached to its worldview that it will want to fight with other worldviews. Tier 2 would be the transcendence of the need to fight and demonize the other views. Letting go of this need is not something that can be achieved just conceptually. So because of this Tier 2 is not a set of beliefs one adopts. Tier 2 is the ability to jump between many different paradigms, taking the best from each without getting trapped in any of them. In a sense, all worldviews start to make sense because you see why they exist and what purpose they serve, even if they are very limited or wrong. Tier 2 is to not get distracted by the obvious wrongness, sort of how a good parent does not let a child's wrongness and ignorance to distract from the underlying love and good intentions.

Edited April 9 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura I mean i agree with that, frankly it's easy to see that neo nazism is a lower worldview than mainstream christianity, and mainstream christianity a lower worldview than atheism, and atheism a lower worldview than buddhism, and buddhism a lower worldview than mysticism... 

[Leo Gura]

@Majed But are you able to understand and integral all them without getting hung up on bad parts?

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And then of course this understanding can be embodied to various degrees.

Most people don't integrate it and instead parrot some words. They say things like "I went from Orange to Yellow, skipping Green", they approach different problems with the same one-size-fits-all solution, they distill a problem down to one or a few key factors and that's it, they have a cartoon-like grasp of concepts. It doesn't track on real ground, only on word salad grounds: "relativity", "perspective", "meta".

[Leo Gura]

@Carl-Richard Sure, that's a trap.

But then again, people gotta start somewhere. At least they know what to work towards. That's why it takes a decade.

Edited April 10 by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Carl-Richard Sure, that's trap. But then again, people gotta start somewhere. At least they know what to work towards.

Which is why we gotta be frank about where they're at 😝

[Leo Gura]

Frankly I'm amazed at how much depth each stage has. I keep dipping back into Orange and Green and Yellow and learn more about myself and the mind.

Each color is like its own wellspring.

You gotta stop worrying which stage you're at and just grab insights and lessons from the whole Spiral whenever you can.

It's like a color palette and you are Picasso.

Edited April 10 by Leo Gura

[Eskilon]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And then of course this understanding can be embodied to various degrees.

Most people don't integrate it and instead parrot some words. They say things like "I went from Orange to Yellow, skipping Green", they approach different problems with the same one-size-fits-all solution, they distill a problem down to one or a few key factors and that's it, they have a cartoon-like grasp of concepts. It doesn't track on real ground, only on word salad grounds: "relativity", "perspective", "meta".

Careful, this can also be a trap. Subtle arrogance in thinking people doesn't understand well enough or have a 'cartoon-like' comprehension of a model like SM and it's stages.

Edited April 10 by Eskilon

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I am willing to bet you have virtually nothing to show for it.

What would having something to show for it look like? And how would you demonstrate it?

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Careful this can also be a trap. Subtle arrogance in thinking people doesn't understand a model like SM and it's stages.

We have more traps in storage, they come in a revolving circuit based on the season 🤠🫡

Arguably one of the biggest traps is thinking you are a king when you are a loser (I'm not calling anybody a loser, ok?). Look at what the lunatic is doing in the oval office playing basketball with the international economy. "I have the biggest trap, you would not believe it. Nobody has a bigger trap than me". Then second to that is thinking you are a loser, will always be a loser, will never be a king. Then third is getting trapped by the word "trap". The fourth is trap music of course.

Edited April 10 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

What would having something to show for it look like? And how would you demonstrate it?

"Tier 2"-oriented life purpose with real tangible results, not just plans, ideas, dreams. Friends, community, network. Business, career, creative work. Do you at least look even slightly like those "Tier 2 talking heads" people always piss their pants about in intellectual arousal? Developing a stage takes decades — your life should track that development. Not living your potential is a sin and spiritual and moral self-harm.

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"Tier 2"-oriented life purpose with real tangible results, not just plans, ideas, dreams. Friends, community, network. Business, career, creative work. Do you at least look even slightly like those "Tier 2 talking heads" people always piss their pants about in intellectual arousal? Developing a stage takes decades — your life should track that development. Not living your potential is a sin and spiritual and moral self-harm.

That seems questionable though.

Certainly you may have a very successful career and lots of friends. But I don't think I would say that's a necessary prerequisite for Tier 2.

 

What if your work is not highly valued by society?

What if you are a Tier 2 stay-at-home mom?

What if you're deeply introverted?

What if your life purpose doesn't involve a formal career at all?

What if you're Tier 2, but you get struck by freak bad health?

What if you're Tier 2 but you're just not built for leadership?

What if you're already Tier 2, but your work is so difficult that it's going to take you two more decades before it fully shines?

 

I think there's too many possibilities here to assume Tier 2 has to look like Jordan Hall or Vervaeke. 

[Eskilon]

@Carl-Richard What if a person is very open-minded, intelligent and spiritual(like really not just new agey), but they didnt know about SM. And then say this person whatch Leo's videos, read the book and contemplated for himself. Do you still think it will take decades to reach tier 2? Does this generalization of(taking decades to go through the stages aply to this person?) Wouldn't this person by default be pretty much at least stage green? 

Edited April 10 by Eskilon

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

I think there's too many possibilities here to assume Tier 2 has to look like Jordan Hall or Vervaeke.

Tier 2 must look like this:

[Eskilon]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

I think there's too many possibilities here to assume Tier 2 has to look like Jordan Hall or Vervaeke.

Tier 2 must look like this:

LMAAAO 

[aurum]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Tier 2 must look like this:

The next phase of actualized.org, we all take steroids

[Leo Gura]

Just now, aurum said:

The next phase of actualized.org, we all take steroids

Joe Rogan will be blowing up my phone.

[ExploringReality]

No, no steroids needed. Just a good nutrition, adaptagens, clean fuel, hard work and dedication to the grind baby 💪🏽 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

"adaptagens"

i.e., steroids