Direct Experience and Self-Deception

[Something Funny]

This is a quote from a christian who claims to have had a direct experience of God and give it as a reason as to why he is Christian.

Quote

I've had a very powerful and beautiful supernatural experience of the Spirit of Yeshua.

Furthermore, I feel the peace and joy that comes from his Spirit every day.

I can describe exactly what the presence of God is like. Many will argue that I was hallucinating though, so I keep it concealed, unless someone really wants to know.

...

I searched for it with all my heart, and I didn't stop seeking until I found it.

I searched in lots of different religions. I wasn't Christian before I had that full experience, but I had felt his peace before. I just didn't fully know yet.

There was something that happened that caused me to know without a shadow of a doubt that he is real. That was what led me to truly find him and really know him.

The moment before I met him, I did open my heart to him and say a prayer.

After I said that prayer, I saw his glory, and he filled my heart with his love.

It was crystal clear that it was him

 

Is this him just mixing his pre-existing ideas of christianity with mystical experience and deluding himself or can you have an actual "Christianity themed" awakening? If it is possible, do you take it for what it is because direct experience is king or do you tell yourself that your mind is playing tricks on you because you know (lets say from watching Leo's videos) that awakening should be something more than you just meeting a spirit of Yeshua?

If this were you, how would you know if your experience was real and you are not deluding yourself?

Direct experience is the only way to know if God exists and to understand God, but everyone's experience is different so how can you be sure if yours is the true one?

 

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

can you have an actual "Christianity themed" awakening?

Sure you can.

You can also have a kangaroo themed awakening.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure you can.

You can also have a kangaroo themed awakening.

Lmao

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure you can.

You can also have a kangaroo themed awakening.

Exactly, lol.

But that means you can't trust your direct experience either and you need to run it through the filter of your indirect knowledge of reality, which is kind of a catch 22, isn't it?

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

But that means you can't trust your direct experience either and you need to run it through the filter of your indirect knowledge of reality, which is kind of a catch 22, isn't it?

Not really.

It just means that you need to be Construct-Aware. You can employ any construct as a medium to access God, but you need to be aware of it as one construct and a medium.

I could use a kangaroo to access God and simultaneously be aware that the kangaroo is just one form I'm employing.

The mistake is to either confuse the kangaroo with God itself or to make the kangaroo some exclusive thing. You want to avoid worshiping the kangaroo. But you can appreciate the kangaroo for what it is.

Look at this analogy:

You use the English language to understand concepts and reality, but ideas and reality are not limited to English, and English is not the only way, and English should not be worshiped. You can have ideas without using English. The mistake people make is to get attached to the English.

You don't want to limit God to just Jesus because you want to see a dog or your body as God too. Otherwise you'll be without God unless you're seeing Jesus or some such thing, which is a mistake. You want to get good at seeing God in all forms. You should recognize your toilet paper as God. That's why chasing Jesus is a problematic.

Edited April 9 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

Would love to have heard their explanation and description of what the presence of God is like. 

BTW, God is presence itself, so there's no Presence of God.

[UnbornTao]

It could also not be a direct experience, so the deception might start there. 

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura ok, I see.

[Something Funny]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

It could also not be a direct experience, so the deception might start there. 

Yes, that's possible. But I like to give a person a benefit of the doubt in such cases since this argument can be used against anyone claiming to have a direct experience of God.

[Leo Gura]

@Something Funny The question is always: What have you realized about the nature of Reality? What is Reality? What is self? What is Consciousness?

That cuts through the mythological games.

If the guy says, "I realized reality is a luminous kangaroo." Then he's getting stuck.

Edited April 9 by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

15 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Yes, that's possible. But I like to give a person a benefit of the doubt in such cases since this argument can be used against anyone claiming to have a direct experience of God.

Perhaps. Also, people like to talk and call anything "awakening." You can tell, by paying close attention, whether they're being authentic or not based on the expression used since it gives clues as to where their minds are coming from. 

Edited April 10 by UnbornTao

[Something Funny]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Something Funny The question is always: What have you realized about the nature of Reality? What is Reality? What is self? What is Consciousness?

That cuts through the mythological games.

If the guy says, "I realized reality is a kangaroo." Then he's getting stuck.

Ok  

5 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Perhaps. Also, people like to talk and call "awakening" (and similar) anything. By paying close attention, sometimes it is clear by the expression and language used as they give clues as to where their minds are coming from. 

Yes, I agree.

[Rafael Thundercat]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You should recognize your toilet paper as God. That's why chasing Jesus is a problematic.

I promise. In my next Ayahuasca retreat I will put a Kangooro Toy and a Toilet paper in front of me and contemplate into it till I see Good in it. At same time my constant topic when I am i  the peak of the visions is to enquire that I am seeing visuals even with eyes closed. The visuals are being projected inside the eye. Is crazy, the eye itself of the felt sense of the eye is also a figment. The eye see but I dont see the eye. I see visions of cats, people faces, fractals, foxes. And open my eyes and is just the room there with people. Sometimes room with fractals top but always me being conscious of something visual,sonds,smells, protoception,tastes in the mouth, feelings, thoughts etc.. Something always existing. 

[gettoefl]

 

Ask them the following. May add a few more if necessary.

 

1. Why are you incarnated here? If they mention others to save or another to follow, they are deluded.

2. How do you view death?

3. What message do you have for the people of the world to reach where you are.

[Yimpa]

9 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Yes, I agree.

It's also good to disagree.