What is the US really trying to achieve with all those tariffs?

[PurpleTree]

They are tanking the economy.

They are making enemies.

What‘s really their main goal?

[gambler]

I dunno this is me throwing things out but I’m unsure, hence the question marks:

They want multinational companies to bring manufacturing to the states?

For American companies to be more competitive and take advantage of a new opportunity in the market? 

For someone else to bear the tariffs than the consumer? Though I don’t know how they’ll do that. If prices are refused to be increased to consumer, then do the exporters bend the knee in profit margin reductions and sell at a lower price to American suppliers? Lowered price+tariff=normal price? Exporter pays the tariff? 
 

I want to see someone steelman this. 

Edited April 8 by gambler

[ted73104]

Yes, Trump wants to bring manufacturing back to the United States, the US has been seriously lacking in manufacturing capability since WWII. At the same time Trump also has to allow the US dollar to remain as the world reserve currency. I think the tariffs are mostly still a negotiating tactic, although they could be put in place to block competition as the US transitions itself. A lot of countries rely on exporting to the US, so they would likely work to invest more in the US, root out bad actors who are a part of IP theft, and not manipulate their currency against the US dollar. Just look at fucking Taiwan, TSMC bended over just like an LA escort. They even have to invest and save Intel right now.

It is a very aggressive tactic, but who knows if it could work or not in the end. TSMC could still do what Terry Guo did in Wisconsin back in Trump's first term. This would be a huge shift in the world economic order if the tariffs were literally put in place, however the US is not really in a position like they were back in the days of the Bretton Woods agreement where the US saved the world from Japan and Germany. So making this amount of tariffs to hit the global economy for the US's own ends? I believe every country understands that Russian Asset Trump wants them to become the US's vassal. I personally wouldn't bet on that. Taiwan if pushed to the extreme could always abandon "democracy" and turn over to China.

 

[PurpleTree]

21 minutes ago, ted73104 said:

Yes, Trump wants to bring manufacturing back to the United States, the US has been seriously lacking in manufacturing capability since WWII

 

I mean Europe too. A lot of European companies started to manufacture in China etc.

21 minutes ago, ted73104 said:

. Just look at fucking Taiwan, TSMC bended over just like an LA escort. 

 

Yea but that’s another kind of extortion thing almost. Either bow down to US or get swallowed by China. Same with Ukraine and Russia. In the long run it could turn out bad. It’s like in Scarface or whichever mafia movie. The guy said would you rather be loved or feared?

 

Maybe the US is trying to bait China into attacking Taiwan. Because right now the US would probably still win. It doesn’t make sense to lose allies like Canada and Europe etc. against China though.

 

Edited April 8 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

 

[WikiRando]

Donald Trump sees the US deficit as the US being ripped off by other countries, and wants tariffs to not only restore American manufacturing, but reverse the massive deficit with massive tariff revenues.

He's been crystal clear on this, even before his first Presidential term. This is nothing new. 

He will see it to the end, because just needs to be right and cannot let himself lose. 

This has a national security element as well, because manufacturing is used for military purposes in times of war.

This whole proposed strategy is exactly what China is doing. China is protectionistic to give their domestic manufacturing a powerful edge that allowed China to become the 2nd world power and a manufacturing powerhouse.

There are influential voices within the Trump administration who see a decoupling with China as the strategy to take. The comically large 60% tariffs that make most trade unfeasible with China suggests this.

This is the biggest point of concern because the effect on the American economy cannot be understated, the Federal Reserve simply does not have the levers to pull to deal with the damage that this will do. The situation is fluid. 


 

Edited April 8 by WikiRando

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

What‘s really their main goal?

To feed Trump's ego and to make his corrupt friends rich.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To feed Trump's ego and to make his corrupt friends rich.

I don’t know but probably the conspiracy theorists in me can’t help but think that there are deeper reasons to this and that Donald agent orange is just used as an easy to hate narcissist gross figure.

[Daniel Balan]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To feed Trump's ego and to make his corrupt friends rich.

But his friends are already filthy rich! Aren't there any other methods to make his friends even richer without fucking in the ass the entire globe? I mean, if he just cut all the taxes and stopped any regulation on the rich, wouldn't that achieve the same goal? Or for his friends to feel like the kings of the world, the rest of the population must lose all their money?

If you were to ask me, Trump is just a psychopath, who enjoys the feeling of having the power to enslave, and to fiscally ruin other people. 

[vibv]

@Daniel Balan They define "Being rich" as having power over other people — of which you can never have enough. That also requires anyone else to be poorer than them, because else their money wouldn't have that kind of power to it.

But that's not what Power really means. It's a pathetic kind of power, better called "control". Real Power doesn't need anyone to conform to it. The definition of Real Power is "that which persists and wins in the end" — aka LOVE. Of course it must be so.

Exerting control over other people is easy — but being a POWERFUL LEADER is extremely fucking hard. That's why almost no one is willing to do that.

You become POWERFUL by letting Real Power speak through you — aka GOD. Of course it must be so.

Of course  

Being in control is miserable as fuck. That's why it's also addictive — because it never gives you what you really crave: POWER.

Forgiveness is more POWERFUL than holding grudges.
Compassion is more POWERFUL than contempt.
Tenderness is more POWERFUL than being violent.
Humour is more POWERFUL than complaining.
Dancing in harmony is more POWERFUL than marching in step.

Real Power is Dancing with the whole Cosmos — because EVERYTHING works together in perfect harmony.

But if you're afraid to lose control, everything becomes your enemy.

Edited April 8 by vibv

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

But his friends are already filthy rich!

Their greed is endless.

And his friends are mostly 3rd tier grifters, not truly rich.

25 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Aren't there any other methods to make his friends even richer without fucking in the ass the entire globe?

For Trump that's a feature not a bug.

Remember, he's driven by revenge. He promised revenge. He will take revenege on everyone who doubted him.

[Wilhelm44]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To feed Trump's ego and to make his corrupt friends rich.

How are tariffs going to make his friends richer ? Seems like it's just leading to an endless tariff war that even he will need to abandon at some point ?

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

How are tariffs going to make his friends richer ? Seems like it's just leading to an endless tariff war that even he will need to abandon at some point ?

Because it is about domination out of a deep-seated feeling of having been wronged and thirsting for revenge.

[Daniel Balan]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Remember, he's driven by revenge. He promised revenge. He will take revenege on everyone who doubted him.

His administration resembles a high school gang of bullies who want to bully all the other kids in the school yard, rather than a presidential administration. It all feels so childish, so immature! It's like they have never graduated high school. He is 80 years old, but his behaviour and mentality is that of a teen who wants to take a geek's lunch money!

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

Because it is about domination out of a deep-seated feeling of having been wronged and thirsting for revenge.

I understand, but you are not really answering my question. How is anyone financially profiting from this if it's just leading to a tit for tat ?

Edited April 8 by Wilhelm44

[vibv]

Just now, Wilhelm44 said:

I understand, but you are not really answering my question. How is anyone financially profiting from this if it's just leading to a tit for tat ?

Because that's not what this is about. Trump is feeding the darkest cravings of the unconscious collective american ego-mind.

[enchanted]

I think I understand Trump's logic and I think I can stealman it pretty well.

If we purchase more things from a country than it purchases from us we are losing money (and gaining goods). The US spends more money servicing it's debt than it doesn't on the military. Trump is trying to curb spending. 

His plan might make things even worse but at least he's addressing the debt issue that both sides of the aisle agree on is bad.

[Wilhelm44]

5 minutes ago, vibv said:

Because that's not what this is about. Trump is feeding the darkest cravings of the unconscious collective american ego-mind.

Yes, but Leo said Trump is making his corrupt friends rich through tariffs. That is specifically what my question was referring to. ie how is anyone getting rich in an endless tariff war ?

Edited April 8 by Wilhelm44

[DocWatts]

It's not 'the US', it's Trump. And they're not economic policy, they're extorsion. 

Trump wants to rule America like a mafia boss, not a president.

The Liberation Day Tariffs are a political weapon intentionally designed to create economic hardship - to establish a patronage system where Trump can offer selective relief from the tariffs to companies and individuals who are willing to kiss the ring.

Trump isn't playing twelve dimensional chess here - he's a grifter and a bully who's using tariffs to feel like a big man who can make people grovel at his feet.

________________________________________________

BlueSky post from Senator  Chris Murphy on the Tariffs:

https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:y77n77kdqzhbg647blkfypyr/post/3lluxkmx7wc2m

Those trying to understand the tariffs as economic policy are dangerously naive. No, the tariffs are a tool to collapse our democracy. A means to compel loyalty from every business that will need to petition Trump for relief.

This week you will read many confused economists and political pundits who won’t understand how the tariffs make economic sense. That’s because they don’t. They aren’t designed as economic policy. The tariffs are simply a new, super dangerous political tool.

You see, our founders created a President with limited and checked powers. They specifically put the power of spending and taxation in the hands of the legislature. Why? Because they watched how kings and despots used spending and taxes to control their subjects. British kings used taxation to reward loyalty and punish dissent. Our own revolution was spurred by the King’s use of heavy taxation of the colonies to punish our push for self governance. The King’s message was simple: stop protesting and I’ll stop taxing.

Trump knows that he can weaken (and maybe destroy) democracy by using spending and taxation in the same way. He is using access to government funds to bully universities, law firms and state and local governments into loyalty pledges. Healthy democracies rely on an independent legal profession to maintain the rule of law, independent universities to guard objective truth and provide forums for dissent to authority, and independent state/local government to counterbalance a powerful federal government. But the private sector also plays a rule to protect democracy. Independent industry has power.

The tariffs are Trump’s tool to erode that independence. Now, one by one, every industry or company will need to pledge loyalty to Trump in order to get sanctions relief. What could Trump demand as part of a quiet loyalty pledge? Public shows of support from executives for all his economic policy. Contributions to his political efforts. Promises to police employees’ support for his political opposition.

The tariffs are DESIGNED to create economic hardship. Why? So that Trump has a straight face rationale for releasing them, business by business or industry by industry. As he adjusts or grants relief, it’s a win-win: the economy improves and dissent disappears. And once Trump has the lawyers, colleges and industry under his thumb, it becomes very hard for the opposition to have any viable space to maneuver.

Trump didn’t invent this strategy. It’s the playbook for democratically elected leaders who want to stay in power forever. The tariffs aren’t economic policy. They are political weapons. But as long as we see this clearly, we can stop him. Public mobilization is working. Today, a few Republicans joined Democrats to vote against one set of tariffs.

The people still have the power.

 

 

Edited April 8 by DocWatts

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Yes, but Leo said he is making his corrupt friends rich. That is specifically what my question was referring to.

When the economy tanks the richest will be able to become even more filthy-rich, because they'll be able to buy the dip. But what they don't  fully understand is that they'll be ruling over ruins.

The most important thing to understand about money is that it's completely worthless by itself. It can only have the value of actually valuable things, that exist (workforce included).

But that would require intelligence.