How could feelings be just about survival and nothing else?

[integral]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I literally said the opposite of how you quoted me.

Jesus.

I explicitly avoided the mistake of conflating meaningfulness with constancy.

lmao I misread completely

But my post was a question I just didn't ask any haha

My question is 

it's like saying, "I felt like doing outside"

Feeling/Will are constantly changing but there is always a Feeling/Will that is absolute. There is no way not to feel and there's no way not to Will. So aren't these first order? Similar to intelligence or love?

I'm conflating Feeling and Will together because they're the same thing from what I can tell.

And isn't My Will just a finite version of the Will of God?

I have this life because God Willed it or Felt like it?

Edited Thursday at 06:17 AM by integral

[integral]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Do you think maybe it would be better to define the act of observing beauty as not the feeling itself - but your response to it as the feeling?

IE observing the beauty is the action, and the feeling of joy and pleasure is the feeling 'reaction' ?

I think I am caught trying to understand you as beauty isn't a feeling to my knowledge 

it's like saying, "I felt like doing outside"

There is a feeling entangled with every experience, even just reading what I'm saying right now there's a feeling entangled, but its subtle. That same feeling entangled is your Will.

When you recognize the beauty in something, it's that your level of Consciousness goes up to the point where you could see beauty/goodness, and any type of feeling could be entangled with it. You could feel good about it bad about it or subtle about it and every other possible feeling in the Spectrum.

Without a Feeling you would never move again. You wouldn't have the Will to lift a finger.

If this is a reflection of God, then this Feeling/Will is absolute.

God/You Willed this life. That's why its happening. Your Will is also the Feeling entangled in all your experiences.

Just like how you "Feel like going outside" -> "God felt like having a life"

This is what I've observed from direct experience but I want Leo to explain how this fits in his body of work. 

Edited Thursday at 06:16 AM by integral

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Good conversation, good brain food.

Much appreciate

 

[integral]

lmao but I'm really trying to understand, is without Feeling/Will there would be no "change".

Change is absolute, but what makes things change is the Will of God. Just like it's my Will that moves my hand. 

[Salvijus]

If you allow your feelings, you experience surrender, trust, faith, love, joy, happiness, peace, laughter. These feelings aren't generated by the egoic fear of survival. 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:45 AM by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

On 8/4/2025 at 6:22 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I'm trying to understand.

Truth =/= Feeling

Love = Feeling

Love = God

Therefore, Truth =/= God

Feeling or emotions are the foundations of the programming language of life. They are what moves us. Without any emotion, you would be a plant or maybe a stone. Even an ant has emotions. They are simply (and complexly) chemical impulses aimed at survival and escaping destruction. From there, everything branches out and becomes complicated, and something like human society occurs.

 But the absolute truth is not an emotion; it would be all emotions, or none. Absolute truth does not distinguish between life and death. Life and death occur within it, and so do emotions. Absolute truth is not love; it is total, and therefore indescribable.

[Salvijus]

On 2025-04-08 at 7:22 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I'm trying to understand.

Truth =/= Feeling

Love = Feeling

Love = God

Therefore, Truth =/= God

Lol. 

Some feelings eminate from truth and some feelings eminate from going against the truth.

Edited Thursday at 12:23 PM by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, integral said:

have this life because God Willed it or Felt like it?

If you believe in entity who created you and is pulling the strings of your reality, you are closed to real openness to the absolute. No one is pulling the strings; reality is not premeditated; it is free. The absolute essence is in everything. Form simply synchronizes with itself, creating patterns. That's its nature.

[5-D - L O V E]

@integral I would like to preface what I will say with this; anything anyone could ever say is just words that are trying to encapsulate experience to some extent, and almost all of it is lost in translation, reality cannot be conveyed, and all our models are just pale depictions of what truly is

This being said, one model/idea I would like to propose is that there's a fundamental duality in different people's awakening expertiences/spiritual path, and that duality is a bias, an important one none the less, but still a bias, that duality is the good old Masculine/Feminine, Heart/Mind.

Feeling is the most fundamental thing is almost all of my awakening experiences, and in day to day life overall, and I see and experience it as the core of exsitence, God, Love, Being is a masterful Emotions chef, and it delights in that.

Leo's bias (one I think he fails to see) is towards the masculine side of awakening, nothing wrong with that, it just may come of as cold and lacking in humane considerations to anyone who's more centered in the femenine aspect of spirituality.

I've heard Leo talk a lot about how to realize the absolute would literally break your mind sending you into total madness, I've experienced and validated that for myself, but I don't see anyone else talking about is Insight into God would also break your heart (literally speaking) and it's the most beautiful heartbreak one could go through because it is what let's the light come in (I know this may sound all poetic and unbased but if you know you know) 

So Yes, Feeling is as fundamental as Being, and it is as valid a path towards God as Insight, Widsom, alien intelligence or any other "modality" 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 hours ago, 5-D - L O V E said:

Feeling is the most fundamental thing is almost all of my awakening experiences, and in day to day life overall, and I see and experience it as the core of exsitence, God, Love, Being is a masterful Emotions chef, and it delights in that.

Leo's bias (one I think he fails to see) is towards the masculine side of awakening, nothing wrong with that, it just may come of as cold and lacking in humane considerations to anyone who's more centered in the femenine aspect of spirituality.

I do agree with your assessment regarding Leo's bias toward the masculine. I think his strength there is that he is able to translate these concepts and communicate them in a format that speaks to men, who often need to use 'head/mind' heavy concepts to deconstruct & integrate concepts. I am hoping his next step is understanding & integrating his current concepts through the feminine.

I use metaphor and simile to try to understand concepts and how they integrate into a system. Because to be quite frank, I am frustrated by the limitations being a human has! But I am here to work with these limits. And learn. Often, I use mathematical concepts to try to reduce things down into constituents and substitute for x or y when I am too caught in undefined words.

I do believe 'feelings' are an integral part of consciousness as experienced by humans, but the way I understand this is, they are just energy. Just vibration and frequency. All living things experience energy, we just happen to differentiate feelings out, and label them. Like the 'strong force', 'weak force', 'gravity', 'magnetism' etc 

If feelings propel change, as @integral points out, then they are a sort of force in space. Time is the frame. IE change = distance / time (much like velocity = distance / time). If we are all this 3 dimensional space, feelings are descriptions of length and direction with time. Making them a driver of reality.

This metaphor has holes in it though, as we know time is an illusion and human construct. Time in 3d space is also not constant as E=MC^2 shows. Also, if we hold time as constant, reality breaks down into infinite realities where all things happen simultaneously. All outcomes happen. Can feelings be the force that can breach the boundary of each reality? That pull you out of one reality and into another? 

The frame is a huge problem for me!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Went for a run, had a shower, walked the dog while thinking on this feeling thing.

Time is a construct that humans create with our minds. There is not time.

All happens simultaneously.

If this is the case, and the time dimension is removed, all that exists is each moment in absolute synchronicity. We all would inherently know the same. Meet up when needed. No clocks to check. Just know.

But to embody this synchronicity, all must be one.

So perhaps thinking through the above, feeling (and love being the highest and most powerful) act as a force to unify us. To push us to this synchronicity. When unified, there is no time. We are then, everything. You love, everything. You are God, and it is a living force in all. So you are God manifest, you are the condensed, coherent energy of God, made up of the very fabric of existence. Here to experience itself. But this can only occur with the construct of time being present. And inherent to this is the feeling dimension that arises.

So, feeling acts to synchronize all to supersede time. All happens now, due to complete coherence & synchronicity with each other.

Time is just God's creation to enable separation and learning. And feelings arise to push us to synchronize into one.

Every evil act is therefor a division. Necessary to learn that unity, synchronicity, is the path. The polarity exists to learn that the more evil one enacts, the further they get from God. Bad feelings arise from evil acts. Divide.

Maybe this is how feelings transcend pure survival, and also act as a conduit to propel us to God consciousness.

[Applegarden8]

There are limits to contemplation. As good as it maybe. I just do my meditation and the magic happens.

"How could feelings be just about survival and nothing else?"

I don't resonate with this question in any meaningful way.

I don't know why I exist. I don't know why something exists. I don't know where is the line between your survival as a mammal and the deeper truth that you are not anything that you see, hear, feel, cognize, yet you are everything that ever existed and will ever exist. I don't know what quality my feelings have outside of the quality of the feeling itself experienced by me.

I don't need to contemplate any of that. I am waiting for the death of this body and I will break the cycle of birth and death with the continuous practice of radiating what I really am.

Somehow I find many of these contemplation topics and Leo's style, similar to J.Krishnamurti not very appealing. I just do the technique, and it works. I am exhausted to think about it too much, it's impractical for me.

[integral]

On 2025-04-10 at 3:02 PM, Breakingthewall said:

If you believe in entity who created you and is pulling the strings of your reality, you are closed to real openness to the absolute. No one is pulling the strings; reality is not premeditated; it is free. The absolute essence is in everything. Form simply synchronizes with itself, creating patterns. That's its nature.

The metaphor you’re making is that God is a force of nature, and it simply organizes itself. I’m not very satisfied with this answer because it doesn’t incorporate Will into it. Will of god. I need to see how it fits.

The hurricane is in motion because  infinite will or the will of God

On 2025-04-10 at 3:23 PM, 5-D - L O V E said:

@integral I would like to preface what I will say with this; anything anyone could ever say is just words that are trying to encapsulate experience to some extent, and almost all of it is lost in translation, reality cannot be conveyed, and all our models are just pale depictions of what truly is

This being said, one model/idea I would like to propose is that there's a fundamental duality in different people's awakening expertiences/spiritual path, and that duality is a bias, an important one none the less, but still a bias, that duality is the good old Masculine/Feminine, Heart/Mind.

Feeling is the most fundamental thing is almost all of my awakening experiences, and in day to day life overall, and I see and experience it as the core of exsitence, God, Love, Being is a masterful Emotions chef, and it delights in that.

Leo's bias (one I think he fails to see) is towards the masculine side of awakening, nothing wrong with that, it just may come of as cold and lacking in humane considerations to anyone who's more centered in the femenine aspect of spirituality.

I've heard Leo talk a lot about how to realize the absolute would literally break your mind sending you into total madness, I've experienced and validated that for myself, but I don't see anyone else talking about is Insight into God would also break your heart (literally speaking) and it's the most beautiful heartbreak one could go through because it is what let's the light come in (I know this may sound all poetic and unbased but if you know you know) 

So Yes, Feeling is as fundamental as Being, and it is as valid a path towards God as Insight, Widsom, alien intelligence or any other "modality" 

I think masculinity is to organize everything into a structured intelligent framework, I do think he integrated feeling, but it’s not clearly defined. I want clearer definition the explanation I received so far doesn’t really satisfy me.

The feminine doesn’t integrate anything into a coherent model or structure of anything, it’s more about chaos.

To build a model of everything is a masculine function, but you can incorporate all of the feminine in your model. 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by integral

[integral]

@Natasha Tori Maru that’s pretty good for something you figured out during one run! Haha

This video is a clear example of the issue. I’m trying to understand, Leo describes Will as a force essentially and never is the word feeling used.

But how could you say the word Will without mentioning the word feeling at any point?

Examples: 

• Think of something that you believe to be true,  it’s a feeling inside you that’s assessing whether that feels true
• Is the Earth flat? You’ll have some intuitive ideas of what that answer is and it’s backed by a feeling. TRUTY FEELING. So a feeling is binding you to all of these mental structures.
• If you stare at your finger and move it, it was a feeling that moved your finger. That’s what Will is.

Will is a feeling, if you look at your finger and don’t feel like it you’re not gonna move it.

Why did two atoms come together? It’s not this soulless infinite intelligence. Infinite Will brought it together, which is a feeling. The rock Falls because gravity is a feeling.

The same feeling and Will that moves you is what moves everything. That’s what I’m speculating.

There should be an entire video where the word feeling is used 1000 times metaphysically. But I’m not finding it anywhere.

This is happening because the concept of Will is defined as a force without feeling. And it makes no sense.

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[integral]

The feminine wants to dissolve and what happens when you dissolve is you bathe in pure feelings, it is the opposite of structure

Masculine wants to climb, build and create and what you get is actualized.org the highest truth, everything coherently brought together

When you read feminine spirituality, it is very metaphorical poetic and it’s communicating a feeling to drive you deeper into a dissolved state. All the words the feminine uses has nothing to do with the meaning behind him, but the feeling behind them, which is why it is very loose. Words like frequency, vibration, energy, these have nothing to do with any tangible thing besides feelings, it is the language of feelings and how we are entangled in reality

Leo’s does the exact opposite, which is to bring you into coherence, every word is precise.

I’m looking for how feelings integrate coherently into a model of reality

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, integral said:

The metaphor you’re making is that God is a force of nature, and it simply organizes itself. I’m not very satisfied with this answer because it doesn’t incorporate Will into it. Will of god. I need to see how it fits.

The hurricane is in motion because  infinite will or the will of God

Seems obvious that there is an infinite will of being, but from what I can deduce, absolute being exists because there are no limits or opposites. Absolute non-being does not exist, so absolute being is total, and its positive thrust is total; it is uncontainable.

Since reality is unlimited, nothing goes anywhere, therefore everything returns to its origin. Everything is cyclical. And for one form to be, another form must sustain it, move in sync with it. Without movement, there is no form. And in infinity, movement can only be relative to other movement: vibrations of reality upon itself. If reality synchronizes upon itself to the infinite power, since it has no limits, this creates increasingly complex patterns and infinite interconnected dimensions.

Any non-synchronous movement simply does not exist, since movement only exists if it is synchronous with another movement, and thus form arises. Its essence is always absolute being, and all spirituality is focused on realizing that you are the absolute being and perceiving yourself as the absolute being fully, regardless of form.

So, why is there a hurricane? because a butterfly flapped its wings in another galaxy in another dimension.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Leo’s does the exact opposite, which is to bring you into coherence, every word is precise.

I’m looking for how feelings integrate coherently into a model of reality

I think feelings are the base of self will. This has huge avenue for exploration. The fact Leo hasn't touched on the rich tapestry available here says to me he hasn't properly integrated/understood all there is to the feminine.

I feel differently toward Leo's use of words (and I mean this as a criticism aimed at growth). I feel he lacks precision with his words. He often uses the same words to describe different nuances within a subject. Another sneaky behavior of his (on the forum) is to run in and state something not quite correct. Or he is proven incorrect by a user, and he wriggles his way out by making up his own definitions of words and language. I admit I often lose a lot of respect for him when he engages in this behavior. It shows un unwillingness to be humble or concede a point. But I digress here, this was simply stated to point out a flaw with Leo's communication (his wanton redefinition of words) that leads to confusion.

Overall self-will & feelings, in my mind, are the same force. A vector that draws us to experience. This goes back to God simply experiencing itself, but to do so division must be present. This is also why I think romantic relationships are fundamental to us: the division of the feminine/masculine is meant so that we experience and learn more about each other through the friction of relationship.