Struggling with my Bachelor's thesis

[Judy2]

In the past two months, I have done extensive research into my topic - probably more than enough, and I could technically start writing now. I have already taken a good 200, maybe 300 pages worth of notes, and the end goal should be 40-50 pages....a coherently formulated 40-50 pages though, which is the main problem right now. There's just so much and I don't know how to organise my ideas or structure them. I've tried to come up with themed chapters and stuff like that, but overall it's still so much and I don't know if I can fit all the things I want to or should say into that structure. Technically, there is no right or wrong and there are literally infinite "right" ways to complete this task....but at the same time, I doubt whether the chapter headings I have selected can properly fit all the things I need to say, and if I say things in the right order.....and there are endless ways to do this, endless ways to arrange specific quotes in different orders...I can spend hours dragging bits of text up or down, but it's not like that would get me anywhere. For some reason, I find it really difficult to write in a structured way about a subject matter that could be analysed from a billion different angles, and there's also a hermeneutics so it does matter what I say first and what next, but in my head it's all a mess and this is so overwhelming.... and the problem is I understand what I want to say, I understand what the academic sources say on the topic (for the most part), but I just can't narrow things down enough to write a coherent essay that explains things in a linear order, because my understanding of the topic is so broad at this point that I see it from so many different angles.
If I just write in a new document from scratch, that usually just gives me an extra twenty pages worth of notes that I will then have to copy and integrate into my long document, where I am repeating a lot of things unnecessarily. I have no idea how to solve this or how to make actual progress with the writing process.

Another related aspect I am struggling with is the communication with my supervising professor. She is generally kind and open to any questions I have, but I feel like I am being annoying. I am also not sure how open I can be with her about the genuine psychological struggles that writing my thesis entails for me....you might say that writing a thesis is scary for everyone, but I think for me it's probably top-notch and enmeshed with an anxiety disorder and so on. I am not sure how to explain my insecurity surrounding the writing process without making her think I want special treatment or I am exaggerating....maybe I don't even have to explain this, but considering that I am weirdly insecure and making this a lot more complicated for myself than it needs to be, I feel like maybe it could help to talk to her about this.

I would really appreciate your advice.

Edited yesterday at 07:52 PM by Judy2

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip41Wq0JWMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2uUGU242RA

https://scribemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/The-Scribe-Method-Book-v2-3.pdf

Edited yesterday at 07:48 PM by Raze

[Rishabh R]

I am currently writing my master's thesis. The thing which helps me is to research about certain components of the title (not the entire title) -- key words and write about them.

[The Renaissance Man]

Hey Judy, I can tell you that by reading this what I feel is that the fact you've taken notes, and made several attempts shows that you've been hard working, instead of lazy and completely afraid and paralyzed. A professor sees the difference between hard work and laziness.

Let me see if I understand the problem: it seems to be about how to structure your thesis. In particular this arises from the interconnectedness of the topic, where there's not a clear logical line but the information flows in every direction.

Also it seems the problem is not about structuring or writing a thesis, but your thesis, because of the topic.

Am I getting this right?

First, as I said, your struggle seems ABSOLUTELY legitimate. And while you may be far more anxious than the average student, your problem feels normal in this situation. And regardless of the individual's anxiety, a very complex task is still very damn complex. I don't know your professor personally, but it seems like feedback on how to structure your thesis would be a valid and very important request, and she'd understand that.

Second, I would seriously use AI (DeepSeek, ChatGPT, Claude), they're all free, but even the paid version could be worth it, since it's a special occasion, to help you in developing the structure. If you articulate the problem clearly, telling it exactly why and where you're struggling, and iterating response after response, I believe you can make some solid progress and gain a lot of clarity. I'm talking seriously, AI. I don't know how often you use AI, but I truly believe it would help. It's like having a second helping professor, with the difference it can answer infinite questions.

[Judy2]

21 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Let me see if I understand the problem: it seems to be about how to structure your thesis. In particular this arises from the interconnectedness of the topic, where there's not a clear logical line but the information flows in every direction.

yes, exactly.

21 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

I don't know your professor personally, but it seems like feedback on how to structure your thesis would be a valid and very important request, and she'd understand that.

Yes, I feel like that would be helpful, but I have already talked to her a few times during her office hours and the last thing she said was that I should email her to confirm the title. Since then, I have done more research and maybe it would be smart to re-evaluate my structure now, but I don't know if she is prepared for that.

21 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Second, I would seriously use AI (DeepSeek, ChatGPT, Claude), they're all free, but even the paid version could be worth it, since it's a special occasion, to help you in developing the structure. If you articulate the problem clearly, telling it exactly why and where you're struggling, and iterating response after response, I believe you can make some solid progress and gain a lot of clarity. I'm talking seriously, AI. I don't know how often you use AI, but I truly believe it would help. It's like having a second helping professor, with the difference it can answer infinite questions.

I have tried that before and it always recovered my enthusiasm for a few moments until my doubts returned. The problem is that it is relatively easy to think about a structure in the abstract, but there's no guarantee that that will properly connect all the individual ideas.

Edited yesterday at 08:18 PM by Judy2

[The Renaissance Man]

9 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

Yes, I feel like that would be helpful, but I have already talked to her a few times during her office hours and the last thing she said was that I should write to confirm the title. Since then, I have done more research and maybe it would be smart to re-evaluate my structure now, but I don't know if she is prepared for that.

Is writing to confirm the title related to the structure problem in some way? Why is that a priority? Just to understand why she said that as a final response to your asks.

By "prepared for that" you mean because you're asking too much? If that's the case, you could tell her about your concern that you're afraid you're asking too much, and maybe asking her what she would prefer, in case you have [insert hypothetical future problem] in the future. That way next time you know.

4 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

it is relatively easy to think about a structure in the abstract, but there's no guarantee that that will properly connect all the individual ideas.

Hmmm I thought the structure is the proper connection of the individual ideas. How can you have a good structure that gives you no guarantees? Isn't the proper connection of ideas the way you come up with a structure in the first place?

Maybe you have some framework you were told to follow, and it clashes with the structure that would more naturally emerge from the ideas, and that's the difference I'm not getting. Is that it?

[Davino]

@Judy2 I remember a friend that used to say if you study too much for an exam you actually perform worse

Jokes aside, I would recommend an iterative approach. I feel you're trying to be like a sniper, aiming between the eyes and bang! perfect head-shot. Nope, that's putting yourself in a very hard spot. It's better to be like a self-corrective missile, meaning you shoot and you correct yourself in the way. Do it simple, like you would explain your thesis to kids, make a skeleton from it, trust yourself (have you notice the psychological pattern of self-doubt you carry?) trust yourself, and once you do the kid explanation, improve to a teens explanation, to a university explanation. Allow yourself to make mistakes, to be wrong, and adopt an attitude of trying, polishing and keep going, keep walking, even if you are doubting yourself keep in this iterative approach of improving the thesis document.

Another tool that may come in handy is buying chatGPT pro, attaching it your full notes and aks for a clear structure which is hermeneutically sound. I would avoid oversharing with your tutor, ask for advice related with the topic and be honest that you're having personal struggles but don't enter into detail, just make her aware.

Overall, trust yourself Judy, you've already done an amazing work. Could it be that by self doubt, you are sabotaging yourself because you don't feel enough for graduating (the impostor syndrome)?

Edited yesterday at 08:28 PM by Davino

[Leo Gura]

Don't just sit and write free-style. You need to write a bare-boned outline of the key topics and points. Then polish up the outline by moving points around until you have a nice logical sequence of bullet points, a skeleton. Then when you sit down to write each day, you only work on fleshing out one bullet point at a time. Don't try to write one long flowing paper. Break everything up into sections that logically feed into each.

Your outline should only be a couple of pages of short bullet points. You could write an outline in a few hours. Then just spend time re-arranging the bullet points. Think about which bullet points should come first and which ones later. Identify which bullet points are most fundamental to your thesis. Less is more. You to focus your energy on the most potent points rather than looking for quantity of points.

What 3 core points prove your thesis?

I basically do this every week to make my episodes. My episodes are like thesis outlines.

Writing is the least important part. The outline is where all the meat is.

Edited 19 hours ago by Leo Gura

[nerdspeak]

I agree with what Leo said but will add some specifics as I taught college for a while. 

The biggest issue undergrads have is their papers are evidence rather than argument driven. A good analogy is that they write more like speculative detective’s reports presenting a lot of evidence to the lawyer, rather than a lawyer’s brief to the court about why they should convict someone.

You should make a claim I can agree or disagree with.

A common structure is “Many scholars hold x, but I hold y, as shown by evidence 1, evidence 2, evidence 3.”

Another is, “Common theory x is confirmed by point 1, point 2, point 3.”

[mmKay]

Is there any reasons why you're not feeding your notes into AI and spending time on asking quality prompts that gives you ideas for quality outlines?

Ai could also give you ideas of structure  for the skeleton of your thesis.

Set a deadline to ship draft #1. Take what you like and remove what you don't like when setting deadline for draft #2. Rinse and repeat.

Ai could write your entire thesis and you could take what you like and remove what you don't. Its just one of many ways of overcoming writer's block.

Tell your supervisor what you told us here. That you feel like it would be helpful to chat about your situation and even though you know she's open to help you still notice yourself not reaching out because you don't want to be annoying or act like you want special treatment. 

You seem like a person that needs very high levels of reassurance and that's okay. Go and get it. 

Hope this helps and that she's provides some useful feedback 

Edited 15 hours ago by mmKay

[Judy2]

17 hours ago, Davino said:

have you notice the psychological pattern of self-doubt you carry?

yes. i am aware that i am actively and probably deliberately doubting myself a lot of the time, but apparently not aware enough to know how to stop.

17 hours ago, Davino said:

Overall, trust yourself Judy, you've already done an amazing work. Could it be that by self doubt, you are sabotaging yourself because you don't feel enough for graduating (the impostor syndrome)?

i'm not sure...instinctively, i would say no. i'd be very glad to conclude my studies and put this behind myself...it's mostly the grade i am afraid of. i wouldn't know what to think of myself if i ended up in the reality where i failed to get a straight A for my finals, because then i would have to start asking myself complicated questions about what truly constitues my self-worth... so i don't even want to risk that and it's easier to worry about how to get a straight A.

Edited 9 hours ago by Judy2

[Judy2]

Okay I think I will reach out again to my professor and say that I would like to discuss the structure.

And I'll try to work on a more detailed outline to make sure it fits all the arguments.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Judy2

[Judy2]

12 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Maybe you have some framework you were told to follow, and it clashes with the structure that would more naturally emerge from the ideas, and that's the difference I'm not getting. Is that it?

No that's not it.

I was told that I am free to break my topic down into 5 thematic chapters and that I should analyse these 5 themes in both of the novels I am writing about.

12 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Hmmm I thought the structure is the proper connection of the individual ideas. How can you have a good structure that gives you no guarantees? Isn't the proper connection of ideas the way you come up with a structure in the first place?

In theory, yes, but in practice it's all very complicated in my head.

[Judy2]

Sorry if I can't respond to everything individually, but I have read and appreciate all the advice🙏🏻

And yes of course I have heard about outlines and how to write them, it's just that I tend to struggle with this part because there is more than a single right way to do this and the thematic chapters are a sort of artificial division I have to decide on myself....and I am always wondering if there would be a better way to do this that I am not aware of yet.

Edited 9 hours ago by Judy2

[nerdspeak]

Two resources I used to recommend: 

• https://shamik.net/teaching/materials/dasgupta a brief guide to argument mapping.pdf
• https://www.academia.edu/2247188/Dont_Panic_The_Procrastinators_Guide_to_Writing_an_Effective_Term_Paper

[Applegarden8]

@Judy2 I have had this issue when trying to finish musical ideas. Alot! What I would do is to try to write something, a sketch of what the main ideas of your thesis are. Right now don't bother about the outcome, wether it will make the maximum possible sense or not. A lot will be figured in the process. You can always re-arrange as it's in a word document. Then over time you add things, refine them and you are done. Judge it only after you have wrote a thesis as it is necessary.

Start from hypothesis, intro about the problem with stats and studies, write the study of what was planned to do, what was done and how does it make your hypothesis look, you will naturally add sources here and there and paragraphs and pages will grow. Present the data, explain them and write a conclusion. That's how I would write.

I write many protocols and reports in my job and my BC work was bad. Not terrible, but bad, haha.

Just make sure you and the supervisors are on point regarding what you are presenting in the doc.

Edited 7 hours ago by Applegarden8

[LastThursday]

@Judy2 Reminds me of my Uni days doing write-ups, shudder.

Since you know the subject well and have lots of notes, you will have an idea of the most important points you need to get over. Those will absolutely need to be covered somewhere in the final thesis. You should work on those first. The less important points you should see as a bonus to include. That means if you run out of time or space, you should ruthlessly drop those less important points, it's ok to do that.

In terms of structure, you have your five main sections as you mentioned. You should further subdivide those sections into subsections, of two or more parts (but probably not more than 5). If the final thesis were to have 50 pages, then that would be 10 pages per main section, then each sub-section would be roughly about 3 or less pages. That makes writing the subsections more manageable. Even if you write a modest two pages a day, that's 25 days or a month's effort. Maybe a subsection a day is a good aim?

As you say there is no right or wrong way to slice up the information, dividing something big up into parts is always going to be an arbitrary process. Creating an outline, is the way to make something flow and hang together well. Choose a way, stick to it, and only at the end you should move stuff around to make it better, because by then you'll have the finished work to play with, instead of it being in your head.

Edited 8 hours ago by LastThursday

[Judy2]

@LastThursday that makes sense, thank you:)