Female Dating Advice

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura Sure yeah i get it. However i am fascinated by misogyny and racism. there are two levels to this: being against misogyny and racism is the first. The second is developing a deep fascination for them as part of human nature. Like misogyny and racism makes people commit such unhinged things like the murders of Edmund Kemper and the holocaust, just to name those. Like it's fascinating how powerful these forces can be in driving human behavior to extremes. 

Come on, there's no shortage of things to be fascinated by in life. You had to pick those.  How about videogames? A sport? Psychology? Egg poaching? 

Or what about a more general --open-- study of the human condition? Art also pushes humans to extremes, but generally in a positive way, for example.

Edited April 7 by UnbornTao

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Majed said:

@Princess Arabia I get it and empathize with you. It is hard to be a woman. 

No, I empathize with you for having those kinds of fantasies. Must be hard having to deal with what created that.

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Come on, there's no shortage of things to be fascinated by in life. You had to pick those.  How about videogames? A sport? Psychology? Egg poaching? 

Egg poaching? Lol. Wait, you're right. I'm always fascinated when I get it right on the 100th time.

[Emerald]

18 minutes ago, gambler said:

If you open up to a girl and show her your scars, and she says something like you're too much for wanting me to listen and talk to you about your deep personal stuff, and then starts losing interest in you, then what? Is it smart to be vulnerable with the next woman? Or is it better to just talk to your dad about these things if you have a dad that is always interested and waiting for you to open up?

My recommendation is to gradually work up to more intimate and personal conversations over time. These are definitely not conversations for the first date... or for the first bit of the courtship process.

If there's a topic that's really sensitive to you, you would really only want to bring it up once you know that you can trust her to receive it well... as some people are not well-equipped to hold space for others' vulnerabilities.

But if she does lose interest and reject you for sharing a vulnerability, then you dodged a bullet, even though it would suck.

[Elliott]

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

.

• The man should be more into you than you are into him in the initial phases of courtship... as this is the stable foundation male/female relationships are built on. And you will feel anxious if he's not investing as much as you,

I disagree with this one

 

6 hours ago, Emerald said:

• which can feel exciting and bring up feelings of longing. Take that anxiety as an indicator that you've gone into Masculine Lover mode and to pull your energy and attention back from him and onto yourself and your own life. A non-invested man who you've put in the Beloved frame can stick around out of convenience and easy-going female companionship, but will quickly leave you if you are not his beloved once his actual beloved (or even just some other lady) comes around. So, there needs to be a dynamic where he's squarely in the Lover mode and sees you as the Beloved whose affections he must win. And you must have chemistry with him and see him as a suitable long-term partner but not be fully sold on him yet at the outset of the relationship. And if you are fully sold on him in the initial dating phase... you're probably in Masculine Lover mode and seeing him as your Feminine Beloved. So, pull your energy back from him and put it back on yourself. Abiding this bit of advice will give you a solid base for potentially creating a life together and having children together down the line.... which is not possible to do in a healthy way if you have all these chaotic anxious feelings about him because he's hot and cold about you.
•  

If you have anxiety I agree there's an issue.

You don't think a woman can feel more into a guy, and not anxious?

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Some women actually don't like this when I bring it up, but a lot of us guys, don't like makeup on women, and I mean real women, blemishes acne and whatever and all.

I think it's the fact that you know they have it on and it feels like a lie - not her true self. Just about every porn star wears make-up but guys don't complain then, or when the hot girl with make up on that's applied well and not excessive walks by and gets the looks and stares, guys don't say I like her but she has on make-up so I'll pass. 

[Elliott]

30 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I think it's the fact that you know they have it on and it feels like a lie - not her true self. Just about every porn star wears make-up but guys don't complain then, or when the hot girl with make up on that's applied well and not excessive walks by and gets the looks and stares, guys don't say I like her but she has on make-up so I'll pass. 

It's definitely a minority of guys. But some women don't wear makeup anymore, and a lot don't for things like hot yoga. When I've been around makeup free women for a while, no, I will not be interested in a woman wearing makeup. I'm not some pickup artist type guy though, I don't like porn either.

It's kind of like you said, not being true to herself, but not exactly that, I think more to do with intimacy. And then, It might sound far fetched, but to me, makeup makes them look even younger than they already are, not really my thing. And then when you see the same woman with it off, it just affects me, until I'm used to it again anyway. But I'll still prefer no makeup.

Edited April 7 by Elliott

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Just about every porn star wears make-up but guys don't complain then,

I complain!!! 

[Tenebroso]

47 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@Tenebroso Thank you for sharing that with me.

I think there could be dynamics to explore around that fear of rejection. That's especially true if there are some dynamics with either parent that made you feel like you would only ever be invalidated and never validated.

You might also ask yourself the question "What is my biggest fear if a woman sees my scars?"

All of these holds clues about how to let go of these limiting beliefs and to open up more to connecting with a woman.

But the main thing is to keep an awareness that the viewpoints that you're using to cope with these things are not true... but a reflection of adaptations that you're using to avoid pain and rejection.

"What is my biggest fear if a woman sees my scars?"

Some of my past rejections were in the form of facial expressions where the girl seemed to have a physiological reaction to me like "ewww".....I imagine if I got to the stage where they actually saw my body that would trigger a similar reaction and because it would be a reaction to scars that represent actual physical suffering that is another layer of pain beyond just a simple romantic rejection.

What do you think about Ekhart Tolle and his idea of the pain body? The idea that we carry all the traumas and negative emotions around that we have to learn how to transmute.

[BlessedLion]

On 4/6/2025 at 8:27 PM, Emerald said:

That's true. I thought about that too.

There can genuinely be guys that operate like "betas" in a negative way.

But when it comes to this particular narrative of "Women screw around with the Chads until they hit the wall and lose all their value, and then have to quickly settle for the betas and get married to those low quality simps so they aren't alone with their cats forever."... usually the men they call betas in this narrative are just higher quality partners that are more mature.

 But because there's a whole narrative frames the fuck-boy as the desired option and the guy she ends up marrying as the non-desire option... it's like "women can only get the Chad when she's young and fertile and hasn't been fully "run through"... and once she's 30+ and rode the entire dick carousel and her pussy is loose because of all the Chads have big dicks and the Chads have rejected her for a younger model, she has to settle for weak cuckish simp boys who don't even have multiple women in their rotation."

But from the female perspective, it's just a huge misread on what women genuinely value as an aggregate. And it assumes that we're like "The highlight of my life was fucking Chad when I was 21"... but now I have to settle for lame Jimmy who's a a low status guy who loves me and our kids and pays all his bills on time.

Hahah yeah , well written out! In that context yes it’s totally delusional and toxic and the “betas” might just be men who are ready to settle down and focus on something deeper and build more.
 

That’s such a childish viewpoint of Women and dating. 

[gambler]

In that narrative, the betas are seen as betas because they select those females for reproduction. They are selecting for her traits rather than a woman who knew what she wanted and settled down with those guys in the first place. They are selecting the traits of someone who only starting becoming interested in them after going through the assholes. In that narrative, those females are usually assumed to be the airhead types. Obviously it's not the case that every woman who made those mistakes early in life is an airhead, but the assumption is a good majority of them are, and will continue to be one. And even if this isn't the case, it's still a huge ick to be with a woman who never valued these men until later in life. Probably because these guys don't want daughters who will emulate their mother's behavior early in life. This is all about sexual selection and the want to weed out certain females from reproducing into the gene pool. This is why asian women from the far east are sought after.

Edited April 8 by gambler

[Emerald]

10 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

"What is my biggest fear if a woman sees my scars?"

Some of my past rejections were in the form of facial expressions where the girl seemed to have a physiological reaction to me like "ewww".....I imagine if I got to the stage where they actually saw my body that would trigger a similar reaction and because it would be a reaction to scars that represent actual physical suffering that is another layer of pain beyond just a simple romantic rejection.

What do you think about Ekhart Tolle and his idea of the pain body? The idea that we carry all the traumas and negative emotions around that we have to learn how to transmute.

As someone who has struggled with body-image issues since I was 3 (though it's been better in the past few years since a particularly transformative Ayahuasca experience)... it can be really difficult to let someone see your body when this shame and fear of rejection is there.

And it really sucks when someone makes you feel insecure... but it's honestly just a reflection of their own insecurity.

It happened less so in adulthood to me because I learned to screen out immature people like my life depended on it.... because it truly does. 

But it's was so common to have my appearance scrutinized back when I was under the age of 20... and I was especially susceptible to it when I was under the age of 15 because I only learned how to start setting boundaries and respecting myself around that time.

So, my lack of self-protection, my short stature, my shame, and my social nervousness left me as a vulnerable target. 

Plus, this was also the early 2000s... so pop culture narratives were a lot more geared towards heavy scrutiny of women's appearances. Even perfect-looking Hollywood women were called fat and ugly in popular songs, shows, movies, etc.

So, it was really normalized for random people to hate on your appearance if you're female... guys and girls alike.

Funnily enough, when I went from dressing like a frumpy nerd girl to dressing like a pretty girl when I was around 14 and I started to develop a feminine figure and maidenly looks... I got even more scrutiny towards my looks, when I thought that being more attractive would be the solution to the problem.

And since I had already had body-image issues since before I started school, this whole thing just added fuel to the fire of those insecurities.

And because of these issues that have been with me since age 3, it's always been a bit difficult for me to show my body to a new partner that first time.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Hahah yeah , well written out! In that context yes it’s totally delusional and toxic and the “betas” might just be men who are ready to settle down and focus on something deeper and build more.

That’s such a childish viewpoint of Women and dating. 

Definitely

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, gambler said:

In that narrative, the betas are seen as betas because they select those females for reproduction. They are selecting for her traits rather than a woman who knew what she wanted and settled down with those guys in the first place. They are selecting the traits of someone who only starting becoming interested in them after going through the assholes. In that narrative, those females are usually assumed to be the airhead types. Obviously it's not the case that every woman who made those mistakes early in life is an airhead, but the assumption is a good majority of them are, and will continue to be one. And even if this isn't the case, it's still a huge ick to be with a woman who never valued these men until later in life. Probably because these guys don't want daughters who will emulate their mother's behavior early in life. This is all about sexual selection and the want to weed out certain females from reproducing into the gene pool. This is why asian women from the far east are sought after.

I just don't think that's realistically what happens in these dynamics. Number one, a promiscuous woman need not rush and settle down with some guy she perceives as low status.

But beyond that, it's typically just that the younger a women is the less selective she will be, simply because it takes a while to gain enough experience to develop discernment. And young people are often geared towards fun and excitement and partying.

So, it's common that women will have a phase of having hook-ups and relationships with guys that are cool from a teenager's perspective but lame from an adult's perspective. 

 And as these young women mature and develop discernment, (the majority of the time) they will come to organically prefer and be more attracted to the guys who are not like the "cool" guy.

[Schizophonia]

On 06/04/2025 at 8:52 PM, Emerald said:

I made a post like t

• Counterintuitively - anxiety and really crushy obsessive feelings are an indicator that he's not a good option. Instead, focus on feeling peaceful, safe, and at home as that settled feeling is an indicator that you feel safe with a man. You should have a clear sense that this guy is capable of being your rock.

You still need to be able to be romantic with your partner, otherwise it's not so different from being friends.
Paradoxically, meeting someone who matches your ideal self can make you more stoic, but it's a defense mechanism generated by shame.

[Emerald]

12 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You still need to be able to be romantic with your partner, otherwise it's not so different from being friends.

The chemistry has to be there for both partners. But he should be investing more effort during the courtship process.

And the reason he invests more effort is because he feels strongly about the woman. And for men it is almost immediately that they know who they want as a serious longterm partner and who they don't. And there is no way to change that or persuade that as a woman.

So, you must avoid low-investment guys... because they will never come to truly love or value you. If it isn't there at the beginning, it will never be there.

But the woman should avoid jumping in feet first at the first sign of chemistry.... which many women have the tendency to do because those feelings are exciting. But this can land them with a low-investment man... or a man that isn't compatible or has deal breakers.

The woman should have tuned into her boundaries and standards and developed her sensitivity to the point where she doesn't put too much stock in the initial chemistry as there are other dimensions of consideration... like vetting and intuiting for compatibility, longterm happiness, good father potential, and lack of dealbreakers.

When a woman goes purely off of chemistry, she just goes "He makes me feel so good and that means something profound! We're meant to be together! I want to be with him for the rest of my life!" And she does so without considering if the relationship is really going to work out long term... or even if he has the capacity to ever reciprocate those feelings.

And when a man is really emotionally invested in a woman and the woman is really tuned into WHAT she wants in a relationship more generally, the lover and beloved dynamic can play out... where the man invests in the woman and sees her as his beloved, and she is gradually "won over" as she vets and intuits how well he will fit into her future.

[Elliott]

 

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And for men it is almost immediately that they know who they want as a serious longterm partner and who they don't. And there is no way to change that or persuade that as a woman.

 

I strongly disagree. He immediately knows who he wants to have sex with, not marry, women hide too much.

[Princess Arabia]

16 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

I strongly disagree. He immediately knows who he wants to have sex with, not marry, women hide too much.

Yes, that's a given but they also know right away who they want or don't want for a serious partner. No woman can make a man want her for long-term, she can only mess it up by giving too much in the beginning. Sex and long-term for a man is different and he can usually tell in the beginning.

Edited April 8 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

25 minutes ago, Emerald said:

he should be investing more effort during the courtship process.

And the reason he invests more effort is because he feels strongly about the woman. And for men it is almost immediately that they know who they want as a serious longterm partner and who they don't. And there is no way to change that or persuade that as a woman.

So, you must avoid low-investment guys... because they will never come to truly love or value you. If it isn't there at the beginning, it will never be there.

This is why when I see Leo telling these guys she should be investing more into him than he into her, I cringe a little because they're not understanding that they will never fall for those women. Men are wired differently in this regard. Leo's advice, though, is mostly just how to get laid and your advice to women doesn't cater to that so it's like the total opposite like a 360 flip the script. It's just some of these men aren't just looking for that (just to get laid) or may want later in life to settle down but still looking for women to invest more and never finding themselves really loving a woman or falling for her.

[Emerald]

45 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is why when I see Leo telling these guys she should be investing more into him than he into her, I cringe a little because they're not understanding that they will never fall for those women. Men are wired differently in this regard. Leo's advice, though, is mostly just how to get laid and your advice to women doesn't cater to that so it's like the total opposite like a 360 flip the script. It's just some of these men aren't just looking for that (just to get laid) or may want later in life to settle down but still looking for women to invest more and never finding themselves really loving a woman or falling for her.

Yeah, the dynamic of pick-up is really about men learning how to go into Feminine beloved mode so that he awakens the Masculine lover mode in the women. And then if a man does it well, the women will start chasing.

And this is good for a guy who purely wants sex as you can get a lot of sex by operating from the Feminine mode.

But it's unlikely to lead to many longterm serious relationships as the men won't awaken their Lover towards women who are in Masculine Lover mode and chasing him.

But it will secure him low investment sex and take the edge off of the feeling of scarcity... whilst feeling more in control.

And men can hang around in that comfort-zone forever!

That's true even if they do genuinely want a longterm relationship.

Awakening the lover is scary for men... as it leaves him feeling vulnerable and somewhat out of control. So, it's much harder to do... especially when you know you can go into Beloved mode and have a bunch of women on rotation who all adore you and worship you but that you feel nothing special for.

So, I see it as a recipe for longterm male loneliness with sporadic hook-ups here and there.