Psychotherapy as an antidote for self deception?

[Anton Rogachevski]

Since self-deception is caused by the self, wouldn't it make sense to ask for guidance from outside the self and ask the therapist: "Where am I deceiving myself?" 

After more than a year in classic CBT therapy I can say that you can make a lot of progress and discover many hidden patterns of behaviour that you'd never even imagined you had. The therapist sees it all so clear, it's amazing actually.

Edited April 5 by Anton Rogachevski

[Yimpa]

Be careful that you don’t put your therapist on a pedestal, that itself is a trap.

They can help you become a more grounded human being, but that’s about it. 

Your therapist is self-deception. 

[Hojo]

Depends on the therapist. I have heard of people going to the therapists for years and still going. It shouldnt be a long time thing the therapist should be able to unravel your mind like a guru. It should be treated like mathmatics but some dont get it or cannot explain it right to the person.

But sitting there and doing nothing the mind will unravel itself. Human existence is constant re ravelling or tightning. The reason people move is cause they dont want to unravel.

[Nivsch]

@Anton Rogachevski Please give an example.

[Flowerfaeiry]

Self-deception is incredibly massive and goes very deep. Therapy can absolutely help you become more self aware.
 

I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself about it though. Like we alllll do it. It’s a survival technique. We literally have to deceive ourselves in one way or another to be alive. But it doesn’t make us evil or bad. We aren’t doing it intentionally. Once you see the ways that you deceived yourself you can feel disappointed and then change! 
 

for me, it is frustrating to know that there is a lot I am “missing”, like stuff I’m not conscious of. But there’s literally only one thing I can do—keep on this path. I know I’m giving it my all, I’ve been through a lot and there’s a lot to work through. 

[Leo Gura]

A therapist can offer valuable outside perspective. But the deeper point is that you can't know if what the therapist is telling you is true. You have to run it through your own judgment, and that's where the self-deception trap happens.

Therapists in general can help you with avoiding relatively basic and common self-deceptions. But they won't be able to help with the deepest, existential-level self-deceptions since they themselves have not overcome them.

Go to a therapist and try to tell her that you're God. And you'll see she will tell you No. Which is her own self-deception. And if you believed her, her self-deception would spread to you.

Therapy is great, but it can only take you so high. If you want to go higher you'll have to get a lot more intelligent than therapy. So it very much depends on your goals.

Edited April 6 by Leo Gura

[Terell Kirby]

My therapist has been great, it's even better knowing that I'm imagining him.

Self Love at its finest

[Anton Rogachevski]

  On 4/5/2025 at 11:31 PM, Nivsch said:

@Anton Rogachevski Please give an example.

• Over arching automatic critisizm and judgment of everyone
• Black & white thinking
• Some immature and completely false thoughts
• Being "parental" - taking care of everybody unconsciously 
• Self sacrifice and people pleasing to the point of almost total self cancelation
• Having intrusive worrying thoughts about everything 

Thank you all for the valuable thoughts!

Edited April 6 by Anton Rogachevski

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Leo Gura

Since the basic phenomenological truth is prior to thoughts and everything is a hallucination - everything you can think or say about the "outside world" is inherently self deceived.

So God is the only thing that can actually be known?

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Hojo

They say the younger you are the quicker the therapy will work. It takes years because ego actually resists therapy and will not back down or trust the therapist that easily.

It took me half a year to only let go of that defence.

[Leo Gura]

  On 4/6/2025 at 2:57 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

So God is the only thing that can actually be known?

Yes. But God is the whole world so the whole world can be known.

[Princess Arabia]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:27 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yes. But God is the whole world so the whole world can be known.

But the hand can't touch itself....isn't that analogous.

[Anton Rogachevski]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:27 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yes. But God is the whole world so the whole world can be known.

What do you mean by "known"?

If everything you know is a hallucination so how can it be said that you know anything but infinite hallucination?

Edited April 6 by Anton Rogachevski

[Leo Gura]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:33 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

What do you mean by "known"?

What did you mean?

[Anton Rogachevski]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:38 AM, Leo Gura said:

What did you mean?

I said it's only hallucination that can be known. You know it by being it you are hallucination.

I just don't know what "the whole world" means actually.

Edited April 6 by Anton Rogachevski

[Princess Arabia]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:33 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

What do you mean by "known"?

If everything you know is a hallucination so how can it be said that you know anything?

I would say, if everything is One how can one part know another. That's my thing with the knowing concept. I guess because God is all knowing. This is the part where I question. If anything can truly be known. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:43 AM, Princess Arabia said:

I would say, if everything is One how can one part know another. That's my thing with the knowing concept. I guess because God is all knowing. This is the part where I question. If anything can truly be known. 

You are it, the hand doesn't need to touch itself it is already itself as being. Being is the only true knowing.

[Anton Rogachevski]

@Flowerfaeiry

On the contrary I am feeling very amused when discovering all the self deception. Being hard on yourself is also self deception so I'm not being hard on myself, or at least I'm trying not to.

Edited April 6 by Anton Rogachevski

[VeganAwake]

Answers lead to more questions and round and round we go 😁

[Leo Gura]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:40 AM, Anton Rogachevski said:

I just don't know what "the whole world" means actually.

Everything you see is the world.