Should you believe in God if you never had a God exp?

[AION]

Direct exp is king. 

So if a person never had a God exp, should he believe in God? Because there are tons of people who do, and perhaps it would be better for them to take their belief in God more lightly until they get the direct exp.

Not believing in God, and truly not believing in it (not half assing it) and going balls deep into atheism can actually be a catalyst towards the other side like a pendulum swing. Usually people who go balls to the wall, get these experiences.

Edited yesterday at 06:11 PM by AION

[Princess Arabia]

How does one directly experience EVERYTHING. Direct experience is king? What is experience?

Also, beliefs doesn't work that way. No one deliberately say they'll believe such and such; it just happens. If people chose their beliefs, we'd all choose beliefs that were in our best interest. Notice how most of our beliefs work against us; in dating, for instance, and about money. A belief is just a thought repeated over and over again until it cements into a belief. 

Should I believe I have an arm?

Edited yesterday at 06:22 PM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

People believe in God because the structure of our mind is the cause-effect relationship. Therefore, if reality exists, there must be a cause, a creator. Anything else is impossible. And even more so if you observe the cosmos, its perfection, the fine-tuning and all that, it seems designed.

But if you contemplate the matter deeply, you realize that God is an impossibility. The only possible God is you. Everything is you. You are absolute. It's an indisputable fact: if you open the range of cause-effect relationships completely, there remains the inevitable conclusion that reality, ultimately, is absolute. If reality is absolute, you are reality, and therefore you are absolute.

You cannot be a part of reality, since reality is absolute, which means it has no parts. If you are absolute, you are the only God there is. Everything that appears emanates from you, it is you, then you can go deep into your substance, which is the substance of reality, and realize that you do not control reality since you are reality, and you have no limits, therefore you simply are, and that's it. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

People believe in God because the structure of our mind is the cause-effect relationship. Therefore, if reality exists, there must be a cause, a creator. Anything else is impossible. And even more so if you observe the cosmos, its perfection, the fine-tuning and all that, it seems designed.

But if you contemplate the matter deeply, you realize that God is an impossibility. The only possible God is you. Everything is you. You are absolute. It's an indisputable fact: if you open the range of cause-effect relationships completely, there remains the inevitable conclusion that reality, ultimately, is absolute. If reality is absolute, you are reality, and therefore you are absolute.

You cannot be a part of reality, since reality is absolute, which means it has no parts. If you are absolute, you are the only God there is. Everything that appears emanates from you, it is you, then you can go deep into your substance, which is the substance of reality, and realize that you do not control reality since you are reality, and you have no limits, therefore you simply are, and that's it. 

Wow! nice. Where is the word "open". Maybe that's why it's a lovely message. No mentioning of trying to open anything. Just simply what is already. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Wow! nice. Where is the word "open". Maybe that's why it's a lovely message. No mentioning of trying to open anything. Just simply what is already. 

Wrong 😅I said; if you open the range cause effect....etc

[Yimpa]

Atheists are dead sure there's no god. Religious folks are dead sure there is one. Crazy how they're both stuck in the same trap of absolute certainty about something no one can prove.

[Princess Arabia]

19 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

if you open the range of cause-effect relationships completely, there remains the inevitable conclusion that reality, ultimately, is absolute.

Ok, but it's in a different context than usual. Usually it's Open/cosmos. Anyway, nice.

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, but it's in a different context than usual. Usually it's Open/cosmos. Anyway, nice.

It's the same. Open means breaking the barriers that make the limitations. The problem is that the barriers are real. You are absolute in your essence and absolutely limited in your form, limited in infinite directions, that's why you, as god, are infinitely powerless, because the very nature of the absence of limitations. 

Any form is the absolute, and any form is the absolute reflected back on itself. But since limitation is impossible, the absolute reflects back on itself infinitely, so everything that appears is infinitely synchronous with infinite forms.

You are infinitely free as a substance, but infinitely trapped as a form. So it's necessary to understand what your limits are and how you can expand your depth as a form. I don't see any other options. Suicide seems like a bad idea. I'd say it produces a, let's say, contracting effect, and you, as the absolute, push for expansion; that's what you want, since that's your nature. It seems like a rather complicated dance, but seems inevitable.

There is only one possible freedom in the form:  that for you any form is the same than another form, because you only see the absolute, then the limits are just images. That's what is called enlightenment. Who's enlightened permanently? Seems quite difficult , but I guess that as you are "open" to the absolute more often, less important are the forms 

Edited 23 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Hojo]

No. You have nothing to ground your assumptions in. You aren't pointing at anything with your mind. You need to pin point God and react to it.

If you dont pin point God in your mind you will be worshipping something that isn't God. You seek then find not find then seek it dosent make sense. 

Once you see it you can worship it. If you dont see it you are not doing anything but playing logical games. God reveals itself not the other way around and it won't reveal if you aren't looking.

God reveals itself by showing you what you are. When you see yourself you know God exists.

Edited 21 hours ago by Hojo

[Yimpa]

Should you believe in Santa Clause if you never had a Santa Clause experience?

[aurum]

The proper position at that point is agnosticism.

You don't know, and that's perfectly fine. But now you must seek.

The problem with going too hard into atheism is that many of those people never come out the other end. They become too stuck in it.

You should hold your atheism lightly, not arrogantly.

Edited 21 hours ago by aurum

[AION]

@Yimpa perhaps Santa Claus exists? How do you know he doesn't exist? Actually he was a real historical person who lived at the Aegean sea lol.

18 minutes ago, Hojo said:

No. You have nothing to ground your assumptions in. You aren't pointing at anything with your mind. You need to pin point God and react to it.

If you dont pin point God in your mind you will be worshipping something that isn't God. You seek then find not find then seek it dosent make sense. 

Once you see it you can worship it. If you dont see it you are not doing anything but playing logical games. God reveals itself not the other way around and it won't reveal if you aren't looking.

God reveals itself by showing you what you are. When you see yourself you know God exists.

God has 1001 faces so which one do you worship? 

[Terell Kirby]

3 hours ago, AION said:

So if a person never had a God exp, should he believe in God?

A fool sure would

[Hojo]

@AION you are essentially asking if we should beleive in Santa if we don't ever see him. I am saying no wait till you see him cause you don't really know and if you just say you beleive in him the belief is rooted in nothing except a logical story. When you see God your belief will still be rooted in nothing but you will have nothing as a baseline to root it into. Until you see God your concept of nothing is not right, its like seeing actual nothing not the logical game the brain plays. The brain uses God (the concept of nothing) to create other ideas. If you are using God to make a story thats not God. God is like an empty neuron. Its like assigning a neuron in your mind to its base state and worshipping it.

What happened to me is I made a death neuron in my mind and was secretly worshipping it by fearing it. Then one day I saw the content of the neuron was being mis understood and I deleted everything in the death neuron and the neuron is God.

Edited 20 hours ago by Hojo

[Aaron p]

It takes a great deal of faith to move towards awakening initially. Eventually faith will be replaced with actual experiential knowledge but faith is required before then. 

Also I would make a distinction between blind faith and faith that has grounded in special insight and hints. 

[AION]

@Aaron p @Hojohow do you know it is God when you have a direct exp? Perhaps it is just your delusion.

[Staples]

You shouldn't believe in anything without direct experience.

The problem is you are experiencing God 100% of the time, so like a fish in water most people don't know it's there.

We should make a distinction between God as Source and god as the tool used to control people.

[Hojo]

@AION because you have no ego when you see it. When you have no ego you know its God cause you are not there. Who else would it be ? When you dissapear God its the only thing left for it to be logically. Thats why when you see it you can now point to it.

Its you 'turn off' and there is something else there and you go wtf is this! I am not there but something is relating to me! Something cannot be relating to me if I'm not there because everything in my brain is specifically ordered to relate to me, but now im not there and have no attachments or concepts of anything but there is something still there.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo

[AION]

@Hojo somebody else put it as: when you let go of illusions of I, I am remains 

[gettoefl]

Belief means don't know.

If you experience, you don't need to believe anything.

Belief is step 1; alas most of humanity don't graduate from it.

Religion keeps you in belief.

It lacks the method to awaken and in truth wants nothing to do with it.

Its message is, please stay a creed-carrying follower your whole life.

If by chance you awaken you need to leave because you are now dangerous.

We cannot risk an exodus from the one true faith.

Only the follower mentality can stay with us.

Trust me that you will awaken in the next world when you meet god face to face.

Belief is step 1 and you need to transcend it as soon as possible.

That's the only point to life.

Religion keeps you a certified pygmy - at least the organised kind.

Edited 4 hours ago by gettoefl