The harsh truth about women -Nietsche

[Lyubov]

On 4/3/2025 at 8:37 AM, Leo Gura said:

Of course. It's all survival.

Man. Woman. Crocodile.

Same force.

You learn this when you do a lot of pickup. The fantasy is stripped bare.

Human love, like all human activity, is corrupt.

Nothing humans do is ever about truth.

If you dare to tell women the truth, kiss your relationship goodbye. Only a fool or a madman would tell a woman the truth.

Note: This is not a license to lie to women. There is a difference between outright lying and just not verbalizing hard truths.

What do you mean by “if you dare tell women the truth?” I don’t understand this. I think you can be honest and truthful and still do just fine dating. A lot of people believe that being honest is confessing and almost like exposing themselves to constant reproach by making themselves an open book. But having your own personal boundaries isn’t being dishonest. The thing is a lot of men were raised and told they have to be good, and their idea of good is almost sort of sacrificing themselves. To me this is not being truthful, navigating life of a way where you subject yourself to being split apart by competing interests is not being honest. You can definitely have a very balanced idea of honesty and integrity in your relationships and consider all factors when making considerations. Truth is not exactly pinning yourself to a cross like Jesus. The thing is many guys that get red pilled thought things would go their way, they had expectations that were untrue. So when they find out a woman is human and is alive and has her own needs and values to help support her own life and ambitions, they are shocked when they don’t necessarily align with that can can’t find someone who wants to be with them. I think we need to really define what we consider honesty in relationships, which I consider open and balanced communication that is appropriate for the relationship itself. Many guys do not make appropriate decisions and it’s equally a part of being honest as is saying what’s on your mind and not lying. You have to build up those skills and they require many considerations. The problem is guys just expected things to be their way even if they are just a wallflower who hasn’t worked on themselves. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Nah, I will choose for her because that's how it was with my mom, my grandma, and so on

You only want change if the situation you are in is bad

That's why I said above that I understood it. It's a culture thing. I recognized that. No conscious human being thinking for themselves would want to choose for another person who they sleep with. Mistakes are meant to be made and lessons meant to be learnt. Thats what the relative world is about. You have showed in your statements here another reason why we suffer as humans. We want to hold on to what cannot be held on to - CHANGE. It's all that's constant except for all that is. Not saying you're wrong because you're right; we only want change when we're doing bad, just making a point. 

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's why I said above that I understood it. It's a culture thing. I recognized that. No conscious human being thinking for themselves would want to choose for another person who they sleep with. Mistakes are meant to be made and lessons meant to be learnt. Thats what the relative world is about. You have showed in your statements here another reason why we suffer as humans. We want to hold on to what cannot be held on to - CHANGE. It's all that's constant except for all that is. Not saying you're wrong because you're right; we only want change when we're doing bad, just making a point. 

Meanwhile all anybody in the world has to do is log onto tik tok and they will see your culture filled with shady tactics, 45 year olds freezing their eggs, talks of "artificial wombs" and sex robots, how to get the most alimony, men on the verge of suicides because they can't see their kids, abortion after abortion after abortion, little girls insecure because of their appearance, men frustrated because they can't find an obedient wife unless they become Tate which they don't want to do, buying status symbols to peacock...ain't nobody who has a successful culture is going to abandon theirs to jump on your sinking ship. It just doesn't make sense

I just don't think women can afford to learn from their mistakes. I think one bad guy and they will mistrust men for life and become feminists who try to police real masculinity which is the only thing that can protect them

Edited Friday at 05:15 PM by Twentyfirst

[Lyubov]

A lot of issues men face in dating is they have unrealistic expectations, this is not living aligned with truth. A lot of men will find out the women they are taking to aren’t as aligned with them as they believe and they then label everything as “misleading” or they realize that the dynamics between men and women has aspects of a pay to play system, needs and value exchanges, with no real oversight. But that is dating. Dating isn’t rules based order. Having realistic expectations about women, how you want to live your life, your boundaries, how money will be handled, how different paths between both people will be discussed. And in addition to that we aren’t given guarantees on anything. That’s life. We can live in accordance with reality and when we do that, that is being honest, not imposing our ideas of purity on reality. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

@Princess Arabia How am I a hypocrite, I never went to a prostitute or used such a service (althought I thought about it for some time before deciding not to, but who wouldn't at least consider it) and evaded all opportunities of having casual sex as well. You are the one doing mental acrobatics around this topic of prostitution, you did say you had sex with men for money couple of times so you basically are a retired prostitute, but found better ways of making money without having to do that work. And that's fine. But don't expect us to applause you for your bitter transactional way of looking at relationships with men, stemming from your vast "work" experience

[Princess Arabia]

19 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@Princess Arabia How am I a hypocrite, I never went to a prostitute or used such a service (althought I thought about it for some time before deciding not to, but who wouldn't at least consider it) and evaded all opportunities of having casual sex as well. You are the one doing mental acrobatics around this topic of prostitution, you did say you had sex with men for money couple of times so you basically are a retired prostitute, but found better ways of making money without having to do that work. And that's fine. But don't expect us to applause you for your bitter transactional way of looking at relationships with men, stemming from your vast "work" experience

You're just making shit up and telling me my life story. I never said I've retired from anything and that I never said whatever. "Better ways of making money" is your description. "And that's fine?", thanks for the permission. Vast work experience? Transactional relationship?. You know what, you sound just like another forum user called Bambi that doesn't come on here anymore. Maybe, maybe not. But he thought he knew me and my life better than I did and told me off about it. You're doing the same thinking you know what my job entails, how I see it and what i've experienced doing it. I've read more things on this forum from how guys are with women what they want from women and how they see women including yourself for me to even be concerned with your limited views on what you think are the only options women have in this field. Your idea of vast work experience and my actual vast work experiences are so wide apart that your limited little puny mind couldn't even imagine what's vastly possible to experience in this field. Guess what, sex isn't one of them. Established men aren't looking for sex they're looking for companionship. Your sex starved mind can only see this line of work through a certain lens.

Edited Friday at 05:38 PM by Princess Arabia

[Twentyfirst]

@Princess Arabia Btw just so you don't later misquote me. My daughter will be able to make decisions on who to marry. But I have the final say of approval. So me and her will meet halfway. Western parents control their kids all the time but they just say that controlling in marriage is going "too far" but nobody can say what is too far or not too far

Edited Friday at 05:44 PM by Twentyfirst

[Applegarden8]

On 4/3/2025 at 2:23 PM, OBEler said:

" Love between men and women is a negotiation of power". It's good to be reminded about love in terms of survival.

Yes! Politics is everywhere. If you don't do politics, politics does you wether you like it or not, if you start doing politics, you try to get away with a little bit more and more...

[Lucasxp64]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

So when they find out a woman is human and is alive and has her own needs and values to help support her own life and ambitions, they are shocked when they don’t necessarily align with that can can’t find someone who wants to be with them.

I'm the opposite, I think about what they want even before approaching, and I think, there is no way any woman would want a broke hobo like me, but somehow they fall in love. What could I give her? Basically just wrap her up with a ton of love. On wait, I had just wasted years doing exactly that, but I did bite the "Blue Pill" too hard back then and I did that hundreds of times for a single woman, perhaps, I'm on to something here...

What if I had instead of being dumb doing it online with a single woman... I had done it locally, and kept going for a new woman whenever the current woman is unsatisfied with me after the initial attraction wears off. I might have been so much happier, perhaps my self-esteem would have been so much higher of getting this out of my system that I'd have had further progress economically and spiritually by not being tied down by this like a hungry ghost eating be from the inside.

I did so much selfless stuff for love, it feels retarded. But wasn't really selfless, it was just coming from fear and low self-esteem, and maybe 40% of actually wanting to dive heads deep into that kind of love.

Some say men or women are incapable of that. But I think, it's people doing the right things with the wrong people.

Maybe, it might have that I get involved in an accident or acquire a disease and just physically become actually really ugly, then all of those fantasies I have about love would be thrown out of the window.

I remember seeing a lady with her face with lots of burn scars, and I could see that she would have been so gorgeous without all of those scars, maybe that kind of woman would be my type if I had some facial accident.

Edited Friday at 07:11 PM by Lucasxp64

[Lucasxp64]

I think anything about humans are never precise. It's always probabilistic.

It's perfectly within possibility for a homeless guy to marry an attractive woman. It's just unlikely. If a homeless guy tried enough, with enough woman, and he developed himself emotionally, he could definitely make a woman have uncontrollable pity for him, if he really gets into her mind.

Like, I get this idea that if we took an average guy and gave him a lot of fame, he would get lady. But the average guy isn't famous by definition, therefore he isn't average anymore.

Quote

"It just didn't make sense that somebody visibly homeless would could be confident. I was single and all guys would be: "Maybe I call you, maybe I won't" and this homeless guy just told me to be back to this bench [at this date and hour]

 

Edited Friday at 07:24 PM by Lucasxp64

[Lyubov]

29 minutes ago, Lucasxp64 said:

I'm the opposite, I think about what they want even before approaching, and I think, there is no way any woman would want a broke hobo like me, but somehow they fall in love. What could I give her? Basically just wrap her up with a ton of love. On wait, I had just wasted years doing exactly that, but I did bite the "Blue Pill" too hard back then and I did that hundreds of times for a single woman, perhaps, I'm on to something here...

What if I had instead of being dumb doing it online with a single woman... I had done it locally, and kept going for a new woman whenever the current woman is unsatisfied with me after the initial attraction wears off. I might have been so much happier, perhaps my self-esteem would have been so much higher of getting this out of my system that I'd have had further progress economically and spiritually by not being tied down by this like a hungry ghost eating be from the inside.

I did so much selfless stuff for love, it feels retarded. But wasn't really selfless, it was just coming from fear and low self-esteem, and maybe 40% of actually wanting to dive heads deep into that kind of love.

Some say men or women are incapable of that. But I think, it's people doing the right things with the wrong people.

Maybe, it might have that I get involved in an accident or acquire a disease and just physically become actually really ugly, then all of those fantasies I have about love would be thrown out of the window.

I remember seeing a lady with her face with lots of burn scars, and I could see that she would have been so gorgeous without all of those scars, maybe that kind of woman would be my type if I had some facial accident.

What you’re describing is very common with many people. I’ve done this as well. Let’s speak frankly, it’s called people pleasing. We look for value outside ourselves and almost sort of break our integrity by putting energy into relationships that aren’t as aligned as they could be with our path or values. You sound sort of regretful or resenting of these mistakes but I don’t think you should be. I’ve done this before and I’ve even managed to turn a relationship around from being out of alignment with my spirit back to being on a path towards greater authenticity. We have to honor our human side here that just wants to share love with others and it’s a learning opportunity every time we forget our own inner greatness even when there isn’t someone else there to reflect that back to us. 

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Lyubov said:

even when there isn’t someone else there to reflect that back to us. 

Good, keep going!

[Lyubov]

22 minutes ago, Lucasxp64 said:

I think anything about humans are never precise. It's always probabilistic.

It's perfectly within possibility for a homeless guy to marry an attractive woman. It's just unlikely. If a homeless guy tried enough, with enough woman, and he developed himself emotionally, he could definitely make a woman have uncontrollable pity for him, if he really gets into her mind.

Like, I get this idea that if we took an average guy and gave him a lot of fame, he would get lady. But the average guy isn't famous by definition, therefore he isn't average anymore.

 

I think this is why the only way to really navigate living in the unknown like this is to greatly value ourselves and recognize our intrinsic worth but also be open to all the possibilities that can unfold without attachment. Most guys are so attached to the idea of how things should be or how they wish they were that they almost sort of cut themselves off from opportunities.

[eliasvelez]

2 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

@Princess Arabia Btw just so you don't later misquote me. My daughter will be able to make decisions on who to marry. But I have the final say of approval. So me and her will meet halfway. Western parents control their kids all the time but they just say that controlling in marriage is going "too far" but nobody can say what is too far or not too far

What if she ignores your „say“ haha. What are you gonna do? 

Edited Friday at 08:29 PM by eliasvelez

[Twentyfirst]

37 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

What if she ignores your „say“ haha. What are you gonna do? 

We find another suitor 

[eliasvelez]

35 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

We find another suitor 

I think you didnt understand my question. I think this idea of interfering and trying to control someone elses adult decisions just seems comical. I know only someone in my social circle where the parents try to interfere with their dating decitions and it just creates so much suffering and is such a clumsy way to try controlling reality haha. Its like life is this komplex and delicate thing and you try to manipulate it with heavy tools that make more harm than good. What if you dont like the dude/girl but your daughter is deeply in love? Do you really think it is that simple haha. What do you do if you daughter just does what she wants even if you dont like it? And btw if you raise your kid in a healthy way you wouldnt need to worry about this stuff.

Btw, would you do the same if you had a son? If no, why not?

Edited Friday at 09:37 PM by eliasvelez

[Chives99]

instead up of picking upping why dont you just engage in some fun hobbies and interests and shoot the breeze with women there if your autistic and have a special interest  find a woman who likes your interest then you can chew her ear off about it lol, if you try to date neurotypical women well thats just like trying to put a square peg into a round hole , no wonder you cant connect lol.

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

I think you didnt understand my question. I think this idea of interfering and trying to control someone elses adult decisions just seems comical. I know only someone in my social circle where the parents try to interfere with their dating decitions and it just creates so much suffering and is such a clumsy way to try controlling reality haha.

They are doing it wrong which is why it's creating suffering

5 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

 

Its like life is this komplex and delicate thing and you try to manipulate it with heavy tools that make more harm than good. What if you dont like the dude/girl but your daughter is deeply in love?

We don't marry based on "love". We marry right away after meeting the person so there is no time for love to develop. Love comes later

5 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

 

Do you really think it is that simple haha. What do you do if you daughter just does what she wants even if you dont like it? And btw if you raise your kid in a healthy way you wouldnt need to worry about this stuff. Btw, would you do the same if you had a son? If no, why not?

You are already putting an adversarial relationship between father and daughter. As if one is the oppressor and one is oppressed. Yes I would do the same for my son. And my daughter's potential husband would have parents that do the same to them. I feel no shame or guilt but only thankfulness that I have my culture that protects my family rather than seeks to destroy it like in the West where broken families are the norm and healthy families are a luxury afforded only to the lucky few

 

[nerdspeak]

On 4/4/2025 at 2:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

Don't forget that besides incels there also volcels: voluntary celibates.

I often fantasize about this, but I can’t last more than a month when I try. It’s not the lack of sex, it’s the isolation and lack of support. Probably part of why Nietzsche went mad.

To pursue celibacy, I’d need to live in a monastery or commune. Or at least a small town where I constantly run into friends. In college or high school lack of sex or intimacy never bothered me due to (1) institutional support; (2) constant interaction with friends contained by the institution.