New Age Scam by Tony Robbins

[integral]

@Carl-Richard I clarified things in my later comments, and I agree that placebo is very useful. The problem is that the people promoting these products are inherently corrupt. And milking. And if you’re gonna surround yourself with these people, you’re not gonna get anything long-term out of it. Also needing a placebo is a lack of growing up, turquoise is high on the placebo without the lie.

The other thing is New Age energy concepts are deeply tied to simply how everything makes them feel because they are hyper emotionally sensitive. They conflate how things make them feel with energy magically transferring between everything.

New age concepts of energy are not the same as higher level teachings.

You could sit there and smile internally, and feel good. It’s that simple. You’re acting. But a new ager is so tied up in energy and emotions they wanna run away from.

Look at anything and just see the beauty in it, make beauty out of everything, it’s free. ^ This is turquoise.

This is the benefit of the placebo without the lie.

Having to be tricked through methods of placebo to get benefits from spiritual work is a half assed way of doing it.

It’s training wheels, you have to learn to ride the bike yourself.

Contentment in the present moment is the goal and the equivalent of the placebo. You can only get it by growing up

Edited April 1 by integral

[gettoefl]

Someone did an AMA on reddit yesterday regretting that they had for years been a fake reiki energy healer that had deceived thousands.

I wrote back the following:

This just needs a reframing.

There are no fake gurus.

Everyone needs a wise friend, a gentle prod, and a kind ear.

[gettoefl]

On 28/03/2025 at 7:44 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, like craniosacral osteopathia, or homeopathy, or enlightenment transference. My only question is whether those who do it know it's a scam or if they themselves believe it.

Belief is a choice.

I can wake up tomorrow and be Genghis Khan.

[Carl-Richard]

@integral

I wouldn't rule out magic.

[Applegarden8]

On 3/28/2025 at 2:20 PM, integral said:

Energy = How something makes you feel.

Wrong. Energy that a sadhu or a monk radiates or consecrated item or a place radiates, energy that a siddha or a guru radiates is something that will make you feel something before you know it and influence the way you cognize and behave.

What you are talking about is how a good enough lie will make you feel. There are orders of magnitude between each other. The latter is really ineffective and delusional, harmful and the first one is actual in frastructrucure to augment human consciousness and initiation into something completely else beyond the senses. Super irresponsible to conclude that these two are the same.

[D2sage]

Retinol and shea butter can reduce signs of aging, not a chair.

[integral]

9 hours ago, Applegarden8 said:

Wrong. Energy that a sadhu or a monk radiates or consecrated item or a place radiates, energy that a siddha or a guru radiates is something that will make you feel something before you know it and influence the way you cognize and behave.

What you are talking about is how a good enough lie will make you feel. There are orders of magnitude between each other. The latter is really ineffective and delusional, harmful and the first one is actual in frastructrucure to augment human consciousness and initiation into something completely else beyond the senses. Super irresponsible to conclude that these two are the same.

Spiritually inclined, feeler types, misinterpret energy, frequency, vibration to suit their identity, this is a major problem that cannot be ignored, and must be resolved as you speak about this

The majority of people that are using these terms have identified with these ideas as beliefs that they were exposed to through their culture and life. They did not figure these things out through introspection and first principles.

What came first was an identification with things they were exposed to in their culture. When what really has to come first is careful epistemology.

There is zero epistemological effort being put into this, And a strong dogmatic identification happening

When I say energy equals feelings, I am not lowering the topic. I’m in fact, raising it even higher.

Feelings are by far the most important possible thing in someone’s experience, all of reality could be made of feelings

The epistemology behind this, and the first principles approach of how this stuff came to exist has to be careful examined, how one’s own feelings are entangled in the environment

Energy, prana, frequency, vibrations, all of these are linguistic tools to help communicate the entanglement between feelings, the field of feelings

The only reason spiritually inclined people are using the word energy is because they heard that word said, they strongly identify with it and then they imagine energy everywhere without even understanding what any of this means or how it was invented

If a person doesn’t acknowledge that energy/vibration is strongly entangled with feelings then they’re lost in magical thinking

Lost in misinterpretation.

You’ve taken something profound like feelings and water it down to something materialistic like energy

Energy = force (Star Wars), this is a very materialistic way to think about it. And I’m not seeing feelings as part of that equation, which is criminal because it’s clearly the most important focus point of the whole thing but you guys think it’s not part of the model

You guys think feelings are not part of the model because you’re judging feelings as this lesser thing because It’s not fantastic enough.

Feelings are more profound than you guys give it credit for

Most people can’t define what a feeling is! And it rules their entire life! 

Edited April 12 by integral

[integral]

On 2025-04-01 at 9:38 AM, Carl-Richard said:

@integral

I wouldn't rule out magic.

I wouldn’t rule out zero epistemic effort and identity games

Edited April 12 by integral

[Applegarden8]

2 hours ago, integral said:

You’ve taken something profound like feelings and water it down to something materialistic like energy

Energy = force (Star Wars), this is a very materialistic way to think about it. And I’m not seeing feelings as part of that equation, which is criminal because it’s clearly the most important focus point of the whole thing but you guys think it’s not part of the model

You guys think feelings are not part of the model because you’re judging feelings as this lesser thing because It’s not fantastic enough.

Feelings are more profound than you guys give it credit for

Most people can’t define what a feeling is! And it rules their entire life! 

Yes, because energy is something distinctly different like the energy of Tejas, Ojas, Blisfulness. You can be blisfull for not reason or take a drug and feel ectasy while "feelings" are more commonly associated with emotion and belief which creates the emotion hearing a lie and believing it.

I think feelings may not be part of the model because that's not my point of focus. I am looking to get rid of this body and bodies once for all. So the point of my investigation is different.

Just whatever man, I don't even want to engage in this anymore, I feel this is a waste of time.

[integral]

@Applegarden8 sorry if I made you feel stressed, my writing can be rough haha. I hope you feel better in the future on your journey. 🙌

[integral]

Update:

So yesterday I sat in THE CHAIR.  2 hours.

It turns out the chair doesn't exist it's actually Four generators on each corner of the room that pump the room with frequency.

The environment was very relaxing, it is essentially a meditation room but with recliner chairs.

My personal experience is that I did notice improved blood flow throughout my body which I associate with parasympathetic relaxation and an ideal state. I had to meditate to achieve this so I don't know if it was the meditation and the good positive reinforcement environment or if the frequencies pumped into me were actually doing something. I would have to experiment some more.

It was a good experience but because I have allergies sitting in a room with 20 other people who wear perfume was a problem for me.

It didn't cure any of my diseases but the next day I do feel a mental calm and a relaxation that persists that I don't normally feel. But it could just be that I haven't meditated for 2 hours straight in a very long time. And it's simply the benefits of meditation.

The experience is a good one the problem is the pricing is too insanely high and the guys working there who own the place where business minded people who had no understanding of anything (not judging, I'm just saying it how it is). They gave a small lecture and I felt like they were selling me something.

I'm going to have to experiment meditating for 2 hours next week alone and seeing if I get the same results.

Edited Thursday at 11:45 PM by integral

[Butters]

On 4/25/2025 at 1:43 AM, integral said:

Update:

So yesterday I sat in THE CHAIR.  2 hours.

It turns out the chair doesn't exist it's actually Four generators on each corner of the room that pump the room with frequency.

The environment was very relaxing, it is essentially a meditation room but with recliner chairs.

My personal experience is that I did notice improved blood flow throughout my body which I associate with parasympathetic relaxation and an ideal state. I had to meditate to achieve this so I don't know if it was the meditation and the good positive reinforcement environment or if the frequencies pumped into me were actually doing something. I would have to experiment some more.

It was a good experience but because I have allergies sitting in a room with 20 other people who wear perfume was a problem for me.

It didn't cure any of my diseases but the next day I do feel a mental calm and a relaxation that persists that I don't normally feel. But it could just be that I haven't meditated for 2 hours straight in a very long time. And it's simply the benefits of meditation.

The experience is a good one the problem is the pricing is too insanely high and the guys working there who own the place where business minded people who had no understanding of anything (not judging, I'm just saying it how it is). They gave a small lecture and I felt like they were selling me something.

I'm going to have to experiment meditating for 2 hours next week alone and seeing if I get the same results.

👏👏👏

Nice update