Leo, do you still believe in determinism?

[Never_give_up]

Reality seems like a paradox, so how can you be so sure that you are not wrong about determinism?

Personally I think determinism is true and I like it that way, free will (randomness) seems very scary to me, but sometimes I wonder, if reality seems so paradoxical and illogical , how can I be so sure that determinism follows logic then? maybe reality is so illogical that it is random and not deterministic. I am so confused. 

 

(This question is mostly for Leo, but if anyone else wants to answer, you are more than welcome to answer)

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, Never_give_up said:

Reality seems like a paradox, so how can you be so sure that you are not wrong about determinism?

Personally I think determinism is true and I like it that way, free will (randomness) seems very scary to me, but sometimes I wonder, if reality seems so paradoxical and illogical , how can I be so sure that determinism follows logic then? maybe reality is so illogical that it is random and not deterministic. I am so confused. 

 

(This question is mostly for Leo, but if anyone else wants to answer, you are more than welcome to answer)

First in asking Leo if he "Believes", this denotes Free Will, its does he or doesn't he, that is a choice, so that is Free Will..

Determinism is on one level, its called Karma, without Karma or Conditioning, a pre set up then no Existence or Creation can happen, because everything physical is based on a foundation of what happened before, this is determinism..

As a Human You have deterministic aspects to what You are, in simple terms its Genetics, but there are all sorts of Memory/Karma within You, some of it Your Conscious of, some of it You are not, this is where Free Will comes into play, depending on the level of Conscious you have within Your Experience will determine how much Free Will you will have, this sort of Free Will will not allow You to change Your Form at will, going from 5 fingers to 6 as an eg, but it will allow You to determine How You Experience Life right now, if you are ruled by the past/memory or future/imagination or not and/or live where life is found in the present Moment.  

This is the way for the whole Universe, there are predicable aspects to it, its cyclical, but its still alive and can form life or take it away at Will, so both aspects are present, as a Human we have the most capability to exert or express/feel Free Will as we are at the top of the Consciousness scale compared to all other life forms on this planet, so choice is always available to us if we are Conscious/Aware of it...

P.S ppl like determinism because it allows them to feel safe, its a security blanket but this is only on the level of Survival, as a Human we can live way beyond this stage... You build up walls of self protection, but whatever wall You build part of You wants to go beyond this self made wall, that is desire to be more than what You are right now, its never ending until You leave this form and merge with Absolute, this is Enlightenment..

Edited Thursday at 06:00 PM by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

In an infinite framework, what is the difference between free will and determinism? Any movement must be interconnected with the totality, every minimal energy vibration. Therefore, you could say it's predetermined by the totality of infinity, but infinity has no limits, and is therefore absolutely free. The question really has no meaning, can't define the infinity, I think that it's beyond that, in another level that is impossible to understand with linear concepts

[Ishanga]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

In an infinite framework, what is the difference between free will and determinism? Any movement must be interconnected with the totality, every minimal energy vibration. Therefore, you could say it's predetermined by the totality of infinity, but infinity has no limits, and is therefore absolutely free. The question really has no meaning, can't define the infinity, I think that it's beyond that, in another level that is impossible to understand with linear concepts

Your turning into another Princess with all this infinity talk, yes we are the infinite, but not exactly in this realm and place, here we have limitations, only via our Experience within are we infinite, otherwise we have lots of limitations, so that is where we much go and find out, we can transcend it via how we are within ourselves but I cannot become bodily or emotionally or mentally Infinite... 

Here where we all are, with Bodies and Mind etc, we have both aspects, we can choose which one is a reality in our lives, you may choose to be determined, I may choose to be Free, that is what is available to each and all...we cannot talk absolute this or that, it doesn't work like that

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Your turning into another Princess with all this infinity talk, yes we are the infinite, but not exactly in this realm and place, here we have limitations, only via our Experience within are we infinite, otherwise we have lots of limitations, so that is where we much go and find out, we can transcend it via how we are within ourselves but I cannot become bodily or emotionally or mentally Infinite... 

Here where we all are, with Bodies and Mind etc, we have both aspects, we can choose which one is a reality in our lives, you may choose to be determined, I may choose to be Free, that is what is available to each and all...we cannot talk absolute this or that, it doesn't work like that

The op raises a metaphysical question, about whether reality is predetermined or not, so my answer is about metaphysics. If you think I should answer, for example: stop the nonsense and get a good job and have children. Well, that's your opinion. But I want to talk about metaphysics now. I hope I don't offend you.

[Ishanga]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The op raises a metaphysical question, about whether reality is predetermined or not, so my answer is about metaphysics. If you think I should answer, for example: stop the nonsense and get a good job and have children. Well, that's your opinion. But I want to talk about metaphysics now. I hope I don't offend you.

Why would You think I am offended, I don't care what You think or anyone else, its just a discussion that will be forgotten about in a day or two like all the others, its entertainment so how to be offended by this??

Everything is metaphysical, as everything is intertwined into One thing, we cannot detach the relative from the Absolute, its here then there, then everywhere, to try to talk specifics about it is more non sensical, and just brings You further away from what is the Reality...

[Yimpa]

@Ishanga

I can't wait for Rocky vs. Alien Big Foot

Fight will be held in Vegas - Leo's Home!

Can you GRASP THAT??????

[Leo Gura]

Determinism is the wrong notion.

Reality is Absolute.

Your goal should be to grasp what Absolute means.

Edited Thursday at 10:32 PM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Your turning into another Princess with all this infinity talk,

Lol. Why not, it's Infinity talking. Hehe. Take it up with Infinity. Ok, I'll stop and start talking about the Absolute. There's no one. 😛Ouch! I just stubbed my toe.

Edited Thursday at 10:49 PM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Why would You think I am offended, I don't care what You think or anyone else, its just a discussion that will be forgotten about in a day or two like all the others, its entertainment so how to be offended by this??

Everything is metaphysical, as everything is intertwined into One thing, we cannot detach the relative from the Absolute, its here then there, then everywhere, to try to talk specifics about it is more non sensical, and just brings You further away from what is the Reality...

Maybe they make non sense to you because you can't see deep, it's a possibility, right? Or is it impossible?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Your goal should be to grasp what Absolute means.

Absolute means that reality is. It has no cause or limits, it is not knowable, it cannot be grasped by the mind, because the mind is relative. Any causality is relative, therefore any creation is relative. There is no creator and creation except as appearance. It is not a possibility. Absolutely the being is, and that's everything. 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

because the mind is relative.

Mind is Absolute.

Mind can grasp Mind. That's the magic of Mind.

Edited Friday at 12:26 AM by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mind is Absolute.

Mind can grasp Mind. That's the magic of Mind.

But the mind always need contrast; without contrast, the mind collapses and can't function. Any contrast is relative; the absolute breaks the mind. How the mind could grasp the absolute? Could be open to it's substance, what is, but anything else would be in the relative paradigm. 

Anyway I'm far of the absolute right now 

[Princess Arabia]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But the mind always need contrast; without contrast, the mind collapses and can't function. Any contrast is relative; the absolute breaks the mind. How the mind could grasp the absolute? Could be open to it's substance, what is, but anything else would be in the relative paradigm. 

Anyway I'm far of the absolute right now 

I can tell you didn't watch his latest video, "Why God Can't Be Proven". I understand you don't take any and anybody's word as truth for everything, but there are parts there that explains this. The understanding of other aspects in this field allows for certain things to come together for a greater understanding such as how mind is Absolute and why it can grasp itself. The last 50mins (approx), best illustrates this.

Edited Friday at 01:50 AM by Princess Arabia

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

But the mind always need contrast; without contrast, the mind collapses and can't function. Any contrast is relative;

No.

This is a blindspot.

I am saying something more intelligent.

Contrast IS absolute too. You haven't woke up this yet.

Quote

How the mind could grasp the absolute?

My mind is the absolute and grasps it just fine. You are imposing these limits on yourself.

Your notion of Absolute is too limited and reductionistic and your notion of mind is far too limited too.

I am trying to teach you something extremely advanced, but you already think you know everything. So you are stuck.

Edited Friday at 02:48 AM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am trying to teach you something extremely advanced, but you already think you know everything. So you are stuck.

Exactly. You made me understand something i queried about in the past and also wrote about in my journal. It has to do with why people that can explain reality so well or have a greater understanding of it seems to be intelligent people overall. It's because it takes great intelligence to be able to do that. Reality/God/Absolute is Intelligence; the higher, the better at understanding and knowing itself. That's why I write sometimes, for the answers to reveal itself. I notice that happens sometimes. Love the latter part of the video.

[Staples]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Contrast IS absolute too

Yes!

All distinctions are absolute.

The mind's perspective of a distinction is what's relative.

You said very succinctly what I've been trying to articulate to myself for a long time.

Edited Friday at 02:31 AM by Staples

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

This is a blindspot.

I am saying something more intelligent.

Contrast IS absolute too. You haven't woke up this yet.

My mind is the absolute and grasps it just fine. You are imposing these limits on yourself.

Your notion of Absolute is too limited and reductionistic and your notion of mind is far too limited too.

I am trying to teach you something extremely advanced, but you already think you know everything. So you are stuck.

 Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand what I mean. Let's see. Obviously, since reality is absolute, the relative is the absolute appearing as relative, then the relative is the absolute. Then obviously, what I call my mind is the reality. And I call it mind because I imagine there's something, my mind, that's processing data and creating mental structures.

Obviously, in absolute reality, this is reality, not a part of reality that must be transcended. And my mind doesn't grasp absolute reality; rather, it is absolute reality.

But if what I want is to grasp the substance of reality, of what I am, I must temporarily defocus from contrasts and open my focus completely, without differentiating anything. So, I call "mind" the faculty of differentiation, and "non-mind" the absolutely open focus. In this approach, there is no differentiation between "I" and "non-I," or between anything else. There is simply openness. So reality, which you can call mind, or self, or God, or whatever you want, opens itself completely and is filled with its essence, which you could call divine, absolute, eternal, infinite, or whatever you want.

Obviously, the difference between this and being obsessed with investing in cryptocurrencies is only one of focus. Reality remains the same; the frequency of vibration changes. The mind is the same, but there is no such thing as mind. Mind is a conceptual idea that suggests a creator who creates images with his will. And this is relative. At the absolute level, there is only existence existing, mind is only a relative idea. From an infinite pov there is not creation, anything that appears does it because the infinity is infinite, the idea of mind is something that arises in it and belongs to the relative paradigm. The relative is the absolute, but it's relative because it seems relative, cause effect, two things, this is an appearance, an idea, and mind is one of those ideas, .same than understanding. Understanding means absolutely nothing. Difficult to understand right?

Edited Friday at 09:15 AM by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I can tell you didn't watch his latest video, "Why God Can't Be Proven". 

No way .Leo blabbering about god for another 3 hours .?.sometimes I'm like "how could he do that ?". Scary dude .

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand what I mean. Let's see. Obviously, since reality is absolute, the relative is the absolute appearing as relative, then the relative is the absolute. Then obviously, what I call my mind is the reality. And I call it mind because I imagine there's something, my mind, that's processing data and creating mental structures.

Obviously, in absolute reality, this is reality, not a part of reality that must be transcended. And my mind doesn't grasp absolute reality; rather, it is absolute reality.

But if what I want is to grasp the substance of reality, of what I am, I must temporarily defocus from contrasts and open my focus completely, without differentiating anything. So, I call "mind" the faculty of differentiation, and "non-mind" the absolutely open focus. In this approach, there is no differentiation between "I" and "non-I," or between anything else. There is simply openness. So reality, which you can call mind, or self, or God, or whatever you want, opens itself completely and is filled with its essence, which you could call divine, absolute, eternal, infinite, or whatever you want.

Obviously, the difference between this and being obsessed with investing in cryptocurrencies is only one of focus. Reality remains the same; the frequency of vibration changes. The mind is the same, but there is no such thing as mind. Mind is a conceptual idea that suggests a creator who creates images with his will. And this is relative. At the absolute level, there is only existence existing, mind is only a relative idea. From an infinite pov there is not creation, anything that appears does it because the infinity is infinite, the idea of mind is something that arises in it and belongs to the relative paradigm. The relative is the absolute, but it's relative because it seems relative, cause effect, two things, this is an appearance, an idea, and mind is one of those ideas, .same than understanding. Understanding means absolutely nothing. Difficult to understand right?

One thing thats always curious and obvious once pointed out..which hopefully you can laugh with me with..is that anything said is always "blah blah blah".  Again don't take offense to this because its always true of what I say as well.

Plus come on please you are here everyday all day and you still haven't figured out how Leo "works "?