Is Meditation BS?

[Santiago Ram]

But @Leo Gura, didn't you claim some time ago that psychedelics could rewire your brain for good?

Edited Thursday at 03:26 AM by Santiago Ram

[RendHeaven]

34 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

@Leo Gura Honestly this is a bit ironic. For years you shit on meditation and the path of “walking up the mountain” and now you’re doing retreats. You said meditation was a waste of time and psychs were the ultimate technology. Meditators were basically pre historic primitive chimps. 
 

Luckily I was wise enough not to listen to you in this particular topic because it made no sense, none of the great masters got there through psychedelics and I just had this intuition that it was an ungrounded claim. 
 

But many followed your advice and took tons of 5MEO without a grounding or integrative practice like yoga and meditation and got nowhere, or even worse. 
 

Now watch the whole forum become avid meditators 😂

 

At this point I’ve spent 1,200 hours in silent contemplating retreat mode meditation in the last 2 years. That’s the real deal. 

Spiritual ego.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Santiago Ram said:

But @Leo Gura, didn't you claim some time ago that psychedelics could rewire your brain for good?

Their rewiring ability is less than I hoped.

The manual effort of meditation forces rewiring better. But it takes 100s of consecutive hours. An hour of meditation is not going to rewire anything. You gotta really stress the brain like torture. So rewiring has this nasty cost which no one wants to pay.

Every tool has its costs and tradeoffs. There's not an ideal tool.

Edited Thursday at 03:41 AM by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura why were you never interested in Kundalini awakening. This is the most fastest and permanent rewiring of your brain. You are then tripping non stop until Kundalini energy settles.

There are so many legit reports where you just need a transmission from a master, which gives you an Kundalini awakening. Also  yoga combined with psychedelics should easily trigger an Kundalini awakening.

Edited Thursday at 03:52 AM by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura why were you never interested in Kundalini awakening. This is the most fastest and permanent rewiring of your brain. You are then tripping non stop until Kundalini energy settles.

There are so many legit reports where you just need a transmission from a master, which gives you an Kundalini awakening. Also  yoga combined with psychedelics should easily trigger an Kundalini awakening.

I tried but it never really worked for me.

Maybe I would need to try harder, but there's only so much I can do at a time.

All of these spiritual things hinge upon people being genetically suited to it. It works easily for some and not at all for others. You can waste years of your life trying to make a thing work which you are not genetically suited for. You have to prioritize your time and energy well. It is murky waters. You can't know ahead of time what will work for you or others.

Edited Thursday at 04:20 AM by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, BlessedLion said:

@Leo Gura Honestly this is a bit ironic. For years you shit on meditation and the path of “walking up the mountain” and now you’re doing retreats. You said meditation was a waste of time and psychs were the ultimate technology. Meditators were basically pre historic primitive chimps. 
 

Luckily I was wise enough not to listen to you in this particular topic because it made no sense, none of the great masters got there through psychedelics and I just had this intuition that it was an ungrounded claim. 
 

But many followed your advice and took tons of 5MEO without a grounding or integrative practice like yoga and meditation and got nowhere, or even worse. 
 

Now watch the whole forum become avid meditators 😂

 

At this point I’ve spent 1,200 hours in silent contemplating retreat mode meditation in the last 2 years. That’s the real deal. 

Do what works for you, Leo is but a human sharing his path and knowledge.

I took some 5-meo-dmt the other day that shit was insane and helped me let go of a lot of trauma I had been carrying and find some faith.

I should meditate more but it is boring to me. It has given me some reality shattering experiences though. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Interesting. I do think there is a genetic component to meditation, as Leo raises.

I have always been able to meditate & manipulate my state of consciousness with great ease. 

It does hinge greatly upon ones sensitivity - this is also why some need the sledgehammer of psychedelics.

The more you prep your mind and body through removal of environments that are detrimental, the better. You will increase sensitivity & receptiveness.

Like 2 birds in separate glass cages - one in 70% Oxygen, one in 30% oxygen.

The 30% oxygen bird is fine, and will live. 

But the higher oxygen bird is going to feel the effects of the lower oxygen environment and notice a difference. The 30% not so much, which is why you often need so much more work (or chemicals) to reach the state of the 70% bird. The cleaner you are the more you notice subtle effects.

Much of the work I have done to prep my mind and body to alter my state is increasing this sensitivity.

Unfortunately, it has the side effect of making me quite isolated, as I find many people and environments caustic.

 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Interesting. I do think there is a genetic component to meditation, as Leo raises.

I have always been able to meditate & manipulate my state of consciousness with great ease. 

Interesting. I don't believe in genetics. I have never had a problem getting laid. All I have to do is just show up and say Hi.

-- Brad Pitt

Edited Thursday at 04:32 AM by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

18 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

With my ADHD/Autistic brain, I don’t see that happening for me.

My greatest strengths are my openmindedness and curiosity — my desire for Truth.

My deepest insights and consciousness have mostly come from contemplation. 

I believe that I would get more insight from 200 hours of contemplation than I ever would from shutting off my mind.

But I will try it someday and let you know my results.

Same, contemplating / self inquiry. 

Self inquiry if done correctly can deeply resolve anything. The issue with it though is that while it’s very effective when applied simply, there is a high degree of maturity and openness needed I think for it to culminate in inquiring away all the stuff in the way of living aligned with the Tao. Self inquiry brings you back to the center, the cause, not living from the effect or as a victim. 

Meditation is a different for me and from my experience. Meditation can be a sort of escape and actually deeply ineffective if you aren’t actually resolving these self created inner issues in the way. It’s sort of like trying to up hill with the break on. Meditating can sort of melt stuff away but I’ve not found it to actually resolve anything. It can help support self inquiry though, focus and it can lead to insights so I’m not saying it’s pointless. I try to meditate a few times a week. I actually have my own practice where I mix in my self inquiry questions while gently talking to myself with love, and I focus on my breathing and emotions while tracing back to their source. 

I’ve not found traditional meditation practices to be super helpful like vipassena for example. I think it’s just too dismissive of the inner stories we have which are so personal and require firm but precise handling to gently take them apart and I also think the teaching isn’t so relatable. 

 

[Water by the River]

7 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

@Leo Gura Honestly this is a bit ironic. For years you shit on meditation and the path of “walking up the mountain” and now you’re doing retreats. You said meditation was a waste of time and psychs were the ultimate technology. Meditators were basically pre historic primitive chimps. 

Let's respect the change.

Isn't nearly everything in manifestation a bit ironic, contradictory and longing to relax its self-contraction and separateness back into a home which in truth was never really left?

It is beautiful that Leo is able to continue the refinement of his views, and has the necessary openness for that. Not many people have this openness... 

And his love for Truth. 

Godspeed!

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
And you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3E-FrMU580

 

Smiling & Humming Bob Dylan "The Times They Are A-Changing" by the River 

[Ishanga]

There are literally thousands of forms of Sadhana, Mediation is too general, it really doesn't describe the process, its like saying that I only eat Food, well what type of food, what culture of food, what brand of food, on and on...

If You find a certain method boring or not liking it, then that is a sign...

Forget about quieting the mind, the whole point of the mind generally is to think, its your identification with it that is the problem not the mind itself, if You think You are the thinking/thoughts then Your too involved, You believe this is what I am, thoughts, opinions, ego, conclusions, teaching, info/data, which is not the case, the key is too know what YOU are not first, then what You are comes into Your Experience..

You can work on the level of the Body, the Mind, the Emotions and/or Energy, these 4 areas makes up most of what makes us Human, find a Sadhana that challenges You in these areas, but works well in Your life, then commit to it, depending on Your Karmic make up it can show results in a week or a year, keep at it, the switching back and forth, starting/stopping/starting is what prevents ppl from experiencing their Potential in Life!!

[BlessedLion]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no irony.

Psychedelics are still the king of consciousness. The only issue is that you can't be on them all the time -- which is not news.

Sure. But isn’t our goal permanent awakening and to drop tools? 

[BlessedLion]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I tried but it never really worked for me.

Maybe I would need to try harder, but there's only so much I can do at a time.

All of these spiritual things hinge upon people being genetically suited to it. It works easily for some and not at all for others. You can waste years of your life trying to make a thing work which you are not genetically suited for. You have to prioritize your time and energy well. It is murky waters. You can't know ahead of time what will work for you or others.

You ever consider going to a proper yoga school? A traditionally based school which teaches yoga under the context of awakening? I think you’d be surprised at what’s out there and how much they can supercharge the path 

[Ishanga]

10 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

You ever consider going to a proper yoga school? A traditionally based school which teaches yoga under the context of awakening? I think you’d be surprised at what’s out there and how much they can supercharge the path 

Sadhanapada program, Isha Ashram in India, 7mth program, serious Sadhana everyday, not only sitting meditation but volunteering which is a form of sadhana, and other activities, its doesn't guarantee anything, but its an experience they say, its available for the serious seeker, if you want something more than this they offer Brahmacharya but its limited, hundreds a year apply only a few get in, super dedication required for this...

Problem is Leo thinks he already knows, with this nothing more will happen...that is the problem with doing most things solo, You think you've researched but in reality one hasn't!

Edited Thursday at 06:20 PM by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, Santiago Ram said:

But @Leo Gura, didn't you claim some time ago that psychedelics could rewire your brain for good?

Every person is different. Psychedelics have permanently changed my energetic patterns, but it's not really the psychedelics; it's you breaking through the emotional blocks that make up the solid structure of the ego.

Whether you use psychedelics or something else is irrelevant; the important thing is that you actually do it. With both psychedelics and meditation, you can trick yourself into creating different structures to remain in the ego circle without ever breaking the self-referential capsule

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

You ever consider going to a proper yoga school? A traditionally based school which teaches yoga under the context of awakening? I think you’d be surprised at what’s out there and how much they can supercharge the path 

No.

I will never follow any dogmatic path. Ever. I don't care what it promises me.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will never follow any dogmatic path. Ever. I don't care what it promises me.

BOO!

 

[Thought Art]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

I will never follow any dogmatic path. Ever. I don't care what it promises me.

So dogmatic!

[joeyi99]

I did Kryia yoga nearly every day for 3 years before I had my kundalini awakening. I have never been the same since.

[Raze]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

I will never follow any dogmatic path. Ever. I don't care what it promises me.

It’s only dogmatic if you follow it dogmatically.