Is Meditation BS?

[AION]

How one can do nonstop meditation? You have to drink and eat

[r0ckyreed]

In my experience, I get more out of contemplation vs meditation. I meditated and contemplated for 5 hours straight. Meditating for 5 hours of just me watching my breath didn’t really add any noticeable benefit than from if I do 5 minutes of meditation. Whereas contemplating for 5 hours straight gave me more insight. 

I have too much of an active mind and I don’t really want to shut it off because I love thinking deeply. I would hate having some insight or deep thought come up and then I would have to let it go and return to the breath.

Meditation to me is BS. I do meditate for 5-10 minutes daily, but anything longer than that seems like a waste of time. I love being active. I don’t want to give up my active lifestyle and confine myself and my mind to doing nothing. Shutting off the mind has long-term consequences that aren’t always taken seriously. I only do meditation for the purposes of intrinsic happiness and incubating insight. But survival and thriving in life demands that you get off your ass and engage in the world. 
 

So in short, brief meditation is helpful but long-term stunts your capacity for insight. You need to use your mind and expose your mind to high quality stimuli if you are gonna have any insight, and give yourself time to incubate it whether that is playing guitar or meditating. I don’t get why you would confine yourself to watching your breath when you could get more benefits playing music. How is meditation and playing music any different?

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I will soon do a 2-4 week nonstop retreat.

Godspeed 

[Salvijus]

Although I'm pro group retreats over solo. But maybe being popular makes group retreats a nuisance. 

[Davino]

32 minutes ago, AION said:

How one can do nonstop meditation? You have to drink and eat

There're literally millenary traditions of mindfulness eating and drinking.

https://youtu.be/c8lRV0rqYd4?si=_NU0UyHM4q0u9UVM

Making tea and drinking it is a meditation in Japan. 

 

Meditation is a state of being not a state of action. That's they key insight. It's not something you do, it's becoming aware of what is being the case. The presence of this experience, the present moment and reality happening.

Edited 20 hours ago by Davino

[r0ckyreed]

41 minutes ago, Davino said:

Meditation is a state of being not a state of action. That's they key insight. It's not something you do, it's becoming aware of what is being the case. The presence of this experience, the present moment and reality happening.

If that’s the case, then why would you sit in a room for 20 hours vs adventuring/hiking out in nature for 20 hours? Sitting meditation seems like a good excuse to be sedentary and to not think deeply about life.

Edited 19 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[theleelajoker]

7 hours ago, AION said:

@theleelajoker can’t one do a retreat at home? Why pay for it?

@AION

1) Careful about assumptions. There are free retreat that are donation based (Goenka, vipassana e.g.)

2) At home you don't have the structure. You still have to care about basic things like preparing or buying food. At the retreat I know you just eat, sleep, meditate. In between some breaks for walking & some lectures in the evening. You are also more likely to be disturbed at home. One time I tried doing it at home. Turned of all communications and then my neighbor knocked on my door first time ever  

[The Renaissance Man]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will soon do a 2-4 week nonstop retreat.

Good luck!

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I do the Shinzen labeling kind.

@Leo Gura a holistic video on meditation would be sooo good.

How to structure week long retreats, even technique-wise (I'm assuming you don't do labeling 24/7? Maybe there's some contemplation mixed in there, or other techniques), for example when and why you shift between techniques, favorite techniques, pro-tips for enduring it, etc.

And on the theory side, how meditation works, the difference between 1 vs 10 vs 100 vs 1000 hours of consecutive meditation, what to expect, even the different mechanics explaining why different techniques work, etc.

 

I never really understood how meditation works. Even after watching your older videos, I can't draw the connection between the practice and the result. I can't see how labeling would lead to God or any awakening.

Am overcomplicating it? Is meditation just about doing nothing for countless hours, and that just automatically raises your consciousness, regardless of how you do it?

[Davino]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

If that’s the case, then why would you sit in a room for 20 hours vs adventuring/hiking out in nature for 20 hours? Sitting meditation seems like a good excuse to be sedentary and to not think deeply about life.

It's usually easier to notice being when there isn't much going on. You still need to focus your faculties to notice the obvious and then from the obvious action can happen.

It's like building up to it. Once you get solid sitting meditation skills, you may try more active meditation and even lying down meditation. As a matter of fact most meditative traditions recommend also meditation "off the cushion" like walking meditation, tea meditation and so on.

Even Daniel Ingram in his book Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha revealed that his most profound realisation happened on a walking meditation while on retreat.

Edited 13 hours ago by Davino

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, nistake said:

Not that it's important, but I'm just curious. Do you sit in a meditation posture or simply on your couch?

I sit however I want and move however I want. All that matters is your focus. Everything else is noise.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

Do not do the meditation. Allow the meditation to do you.

[integration journey]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah. 

I got an old video explaining it: Mindfulness Meditation

See, hear, feel. Very simple.

Vipassana style meditaiton feels more effective for me 

[M4sti]

@r0ckyreed cant help but feel that all this is rationalizing so you can just do w/e you like  , or waiting for someone to agree with you with "yeah, yeah" for confirmation.  I am the biggest noob here and that point you make about " 5-10 minutes = no more benefit or difference after that " seems like ultra nonsense, at my lifetime record of 2 hours straight i opened my eyes and looked at the mirror and realised that i am one with the room i am in, and therefore everything else too, there was no ego and that gollum positioned thing in the mirror was supposed to be me but i just was not feeling it from the same classical ego perception even though i knew that that awerness could move a hand or close the eyes or stand up whenever it liked, all my meditation of 30 minutes were just extremely different from the 5-10 minutes that are barely enough to get you into something. 

 

[Ayham]

@Leo Gura 

Well, how does the end goal of kriya differ from normal meditation in your opinion?

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Ayham said:

@Leo Gura 

Well, how does the end goal of kriya differ from normal meditation in your opinion?

It's hard to say.

People have different goals and experiences.

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, M4sti said:

@r0ckyreed cant help but feel that all this is rationalizing so you can just do w/e you like  , or waiting for someone to agree with you with "yeah, yeah" for confirmation.  I am the biggest noob here and that point you make about " 5-10 minutes = no more benefit or difference after that " seems like ultra nonsense, at my lifetime record of 2 hours straight i opened my eyes and looked at the mirror and realised that i am one with the room i am in, and therefore everything else too, there was no ego and that gollum positioned thing in the mirror was supposed to be me but i just was not feeling it from the same classical ego perception even though i knew that that awerness could move a hand or close the eyes or stand up whenever it liked, all my meditation of 30 minutes were just extremely different from the 5-10 minutes that are barely enough to get you into something. 

 

My point is that for me, I can get deep into meditation in the first 5-10 minutes. I see less of a need to meditate past 30 minutes.  By meditate I mean sitting down and shutting off the mind.

It’s not about the time you spend meditating, it’s about the quality and how deep you go into this moment. I am aware of God right now and can see the infinite intelligence and beauty of consciousness. Time is an illusion, so I don’t see the need to chase a certain time when I’m meditating — That defeats the whole purpose. Watching the clock isn’t God/Truth-Realization. God/Truth are the present moment.

I assess what my consciousness needs to connect me deeper to life. For me, my “meditation” is deeply curious, contemplation. Instead of returning back to the breath, I let my mind wander and wonder on a specific question. My curiosity becomes my point of focus, my anchor to the present moment.

The traditional ways of meditation that I have tried are not suited for my curious mind. If your meditation isn’t connecting you to deep curiosity, then what is the point? I’m after Truth and not to just feel good. The point of meditation for many people is to feel good — To eliminate suffering.

Meditation alone will not get you to Truth. You can meditate for 200 hours and still be the deluded ape that you are. Truth requires using your mind for deep questioning, which is something meditation (as traditionally taught) discourages you to do. Many nondual philosophies, like Buddhism, think thoughts are the enemy, which is only a half-truth.

Edited 4 minutes ago by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I can get deep into meditation in the first 5-10 minutes. I see less of a need to meditate past 30 minutes.

You are kidding yourself.

Even 30hrs of meditation is not serious enough really change consciousness.

Just because you can silence the mind or recognize God does not mean that a 200hr retreat won't take your consciousness to a whole nother level.

You are not some special unicorn that you can accomplish in 10 minutes what can be accomplished with a 200hr retreat.

Edited 3 minutes ago by Leo Gura