Is Meditation BS?

[Salvijus]

Although I'm pro group retreats over solo. But maybe being popular makes group retreats a nuisance. 

[Davino]

32 minutes ago, AION said:

How one can do nonstop meditation? You have to drink and eat

There're literally millenary traditions of mindfulness eating and drinking.

https://youtu.be/c8lRV0rqYd4?si=_NU0UyHM4q0u9UVM

Making tea and drinking it is a meditation in Japan. 

 

Meditation is a state of being not a state of action. That's they key insight. It's not something you do, it's becoming aware of what is being the case. The presence of this experience, the present moment and reality happening.

Edited Tuesday at 02:51 PM by Davino

[r0ckyreed]

41 minutes ago, Davino said:

Meditation is a state of being not a state of action. That's they key insight. It's not something you do, it's becoming aware of what is being the case. The presence of this experience, the present moment and reality happening.

If that’s the case, then why would you sit in a room for 20 hours vs adventuring/hiking out in nature for 20 hours? Sitting meditation seems like a good excuse to be sedentary and to not think deeply about life.

Edited Tuesday at 03:30 PM by r0ckyreed

[theleelajoker]

7 hours ago, AION said:

@theleelajoker can’t one do a retreat at home? Why pay for it?

@AION

1) Careful about assumptions. There are free retreat that are donation based (Goenka, vipassana e.g.)

2) At home you don't have the structure. You still have to care about basic things like preparing or buying food. At the retreat I know you just eat, sleep, meditate. In between some breaks for walking & some lectures in the evening. You are also more likely to be disturbed at home. One time I tried doing it at home. Turned of all communications and then my neighbor knocked on my door first time ever  

[The Renaissance Man]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will soon do a 2-4 week nonstop retreat.

Good luck!

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I do the Shinzen labeling kind.

@Leo Gura a holistic video on meditation would be sooo good.

How to structure week long retreats, even technique-wise (I'm assuming you don't do labeling 24/7? Maybe there's some contemplation mixed in there, or other techniques), for example when and why you shift between techniques, favorite techniques, pro-tips for enduring it, etc.

And on the theory side, how meditation works, the difference between 1 vs 10 vs 100 vs 1000 hours of consecutive meditation, what to expect, even the different mechanics explaining why different techniques work, etc.

 

I never really understood how meditation works. Even after watching your older videos, I can't draw the connection between the practice and the result. I can't see how labeling would lead to God or any awakening.

Am overcomplicating it? Is meditation just about doing nothing for countless hours, and that just automatically raises your consciousness, regardless of how you do it?

[Davino]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

If that’s the case, then why would you sit in a room for 20 hours vs adventuring/hiking out in nature for 20 hours? Sitting meditation seems like a good excuse to be sedentary and to not think deeply about life.

It's usually easier to notice being when there isn't much going on. You still need to focus your faculties to notice the obvious and then from the obvious action can happen.

It's like building up to it. Once you get solid sitting meditation skills, you may try more active meditation and even lying down meditation. As a matter of fact most meditative traditions recommend also meditation "off the cushion" like walking meditation, tea meditation and so on.

Even Daniel Ingram in his book Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha revealed that his most profound realisation happened on a walking meditation while on retreat.

Edited Tuesday at 09:15 PM by Davino

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, nistake said:

Not that it's important, but I'm just curious. Do you sit in a meditation posture or simply on your couch?

I sit however I want and move however I want. All that matters is your focus. Everything else is noise.

Edited Tuesday at 09:09 PM by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

Do not do the meditation. Allow the meditation to do you.

[integration journey]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah. 

I got an old video explaining it: Mindfulness Meditation

See, hear, feel. Very simple.

Vipassana style meditaiton feels more effective for me 

[M4sti]

@r0ckyreed cant help but feel that all this is rationalizing so you can just do w/e you like  , or waiting for someone to agree with you with "yeah, yeah" for confirmation.  I am the biggest noob here and that point you make about " 5-10 minutes = no more benefit or difference after that " seems like ultra nonsense, at my lifetime record of 2 hours straight i opened my eyes and looked at the mirror and realised that i am one with the room i am in, and therefore everything else too, there was no ego and that gollum positioned thing in the mirror was supposed to be me but i just was not feeling it from the same classical ego perception even though i knew that that awerness could move a hand or close the eyes or stand up whenever it liked, all my meditation of 30 minutes were just extremely different from the 5-10 minutes that are barely enough to get you into something. 

 

[Ayham]

@Leo Gura 

Well, how does the end goal of kriya differ from normal meditation in your opinion?

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Ayham said:

@Leo Gura 

Well, how does the end goal of kriya differ from normal meditation in your opinion?

It's hard to say.

People have different goals and experiences.

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, M4sti said:

@r0ckyreed cant help but feel that all this is rationalizing so you can just do w/e you like  , or waiting for someone to agree with you with "yeah, yeah" for confirmation.  I am the biggest noob here and that point you make about " 5-10 minutes = no more benefit or difference after that " seems like ultra nonsense, at my lifetime record of 2 hours straight i opened my eyes and looked at the mirror and realised that i am one with the room i am in, and therefore everything else too, there was no ego and that gollum positioned thing in the mirror was supposed to be me but i just was not feeling it from the same classical ego perception even though i knew that that awerness could move a hand or close the eyes or stand up whenever it liked, all my meditation of 30 minutes were just extremely different from the 5-10 minutes that are barely enough to get you into something. 

 

My point is that for me, I can get deep into meditation in the first 5-10 minutes. I see less of a need to meditate past 30 minutes.  By meditate I mean sitting down and shutting off the mind.

It’s not about the time you spend meditating, it’s about the quality and how deep you go into this moment. I am aware of God right now and can see the infinite intelligence and beauty of consciousness. Time is an illusion, so I don’t see the need to chase a certain time when I’m meditating — That defeats the whole purpose. Watching the clock isn’t God/Truth-Realization. God/Truth are the present moment.

I assess what my consciousness needs to connect me deeper to life. For me, my “meditation” is deeply curious, contemplation. Instead of returning back to the breath, I let my mind wander and wonder on a specific question. My curiosity becomes my point of focus, my anchor to the present moment.

The traditional ways of meditation that I have tried are not suited for my curious mind. If your meditation isn’t connecting you to deep curiosity, then what is the point? I’m after Truth and not to just feel good. The point of meditation for many people is to feel good — To eliminate suffering.

Meditation alone will not get you to Truth. You can meditate for 200 hours and still be the deluded ape that you are. Truth requires using your mind for deep questioning, which is something meditation (as traditionally taught) discourages you to do. Many nondual philosophies, like Buddhism, think thoughts are the enemy, which is only a half-truth.

Edited Wednesday at 10:55 AM by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I can get deep into meditation in the first 5-10 minutes. I see less of a need to meditate past 30 minutes.

You are kidding yourself.

Even 30hrs of meditation is not serious enough really change consciousness.

Just because you can silence the mind or recognize God does not mean that a 200hr retreat won't take your consciousness to a whole nother level.

You are not some special unicorn that you can accomplish in 10 minutes what can be accomplished with a 200hr retreat.

Edited Wednesday at 10:56 AM by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are kidding yourself.

Even 30hrs of meditation is not serious enough really change consciousness.

Just because you can silence the mind or recognize God does not mean that a 200hr retreat won't take your consciousness to a whole nother level.

With my ADHD/Autistic brain, I don’t see that happening for me.

My greatest strengths are my openmindedness and curiosity — my desire for Truth.

My deepest insights and consciousness have mostly come from contemplation. 

I believe that I would get more insight from 200 hours of contemplation than I ever would from shutting off my mind.

But I will try it someday and let you know my results.

Edited Wednesday at 11:05 AM by r0ckyreed

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura can you make a new video about meditation or at least a blog poss?

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

With my ADHD/Autistic brain, I don’t see that happening for me.

Dude, it doesn't just "happen". It has to be forced. The mind has to be whipped into submission. It will not go willingly.

Torture your mind for 200hrs and it will start to rewire and change.

16 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

My greatest strengths are my openmindedness and curiosity — my desire for Truth.

Irrelevant. Meditation presents its own kinds of truths. Do it to enhance your perception of truth.

16 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

My deepest insights and consciousness have mostly come from contemplation. 

I believe that I would get more insight from 200 hours of contemplation than I ever would from shutting off my mind.

Insight is good but there's more to this than insight.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura can you make a new video about meditation or at least a blog poss?

I will after I finish my next retreat.

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura thanks a lot.

[r0ckyreed]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, it doesn't just "happen". It has to be forced. The mind has to be whipped into submission. It will not go willingly.

Torture your mind for 200hrs and it will start to rewire and change.

Irrelevant. Meditation presents its own kinds of truths. Do it to enhance your perception of truth.

Insight is good but there's more to this than insight.

Thanks. I will try it. My biggest excuse is that it would be a complete waste of time and won’t lead me any closer to truth than existential contemplation or psychedelics. I’ve seen the power of psychedelic mushrooms, and I’ve seen how meditation seems so inferior compared to it. It kinda discourages me from meditation. But I gotta reframe it differently to see meditation as worthwhile.