I have developed DPDR from contemplation

[Misato Katsuragi]

Oh hello everybody I wanted to write this post to share an update, for those who don't know basically about 60 days ago I went to a mental hospital as I contemplated epistemology and realized all my beliefs about reality were assumptions and came into the contact with the void, and realized I actually dont know anything or at least the solidness of reality came from me believing it was fact when in reality those facts were just mental constructs I made to navigate life better. I didn't do any drugs and have never done psychedelics but have been watching Leo's stuff for like 10 years, and like something in my brain just clicked after thinking about epistemology super hard, and like my bubble of what reality was felt like it popped.

I went to a mental hospital for one day as I thought I was developing schizophrenia, and didn't know it was DPDR at the time. I became aware of how I was constructing reality in a way that made sense to me, and was the most frightening experience I ever felt. As the most solid facts about life suddenly became shaky, and uncertain.

what I wanted to say though is that i'm doing better by this point, as i'm used to when the DPDR kicks in.

and I hope to live a good life, I still get really horrible existential dread and I wonder like what the point in living is time to time which frightens me, as i'm concerned i'm going to lose common sense, and not live out my human existence cause I realize in the absolute sense like it doesn't really matter. But I have OCD so those fears are more based on anxiety rather then me actually want to act on them. 

I honestly could experience a deeper level of awakening, where I become god, and fully embody infinity and the distinction between everything collapses. But in the relative practical sense, I don't think it's right for me, as I just had my reality shifted a little bit and scared the crap out of me, I really couldn't imagine going into that territory of consciousness at least for a long ass time.

Either way I still feel like reality is shaky and unknowable, which frightens me because I realized how much i've been bullshitting myself thinking I know what actually reality is, like the truth bro I have no idea what anything is, like i've just been pretending that I do, so i'm not in a void of wtf all the time. So I experience that time to time the void, but overall I'm fine.

I feel like i'm really close to experiencing all the joyful and cool stuff, but I really just don't want to push it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UnbornTao]

Breathe, it's fine. I'd add that contemplating is more about "silence" and "waiting" than it is about thinking and intellect -- thus providing an opening or space rather than "knowledge" and constriction. So, that's something useful to consider. 

Of course, when contemplating, one's intent has to be directed at a particular subject so as to give the mind something concrete to focus on. 

Edited Monday at 05:57 PM by UnbornTao

[Basman]

11 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Breathe, it's fine. I'd add that contemplating is more about "silence" and "waiting" than it is about thinking and intellect -- providing an opening or space rather than "knowledge" and constriction. So, that's something useful to consider. 

In my experience, contemplation is a bit like directing a character in a top down RPG like Path of Exile or Runescape to use a gamer analogy. You don't directly control the character, instead you just direct what they do and then they act. I find contemplation to be kind of similar. The mind will figure things out if you focus and give it space to unfold.

[Leo Gura]

@Misato Katsuragi Thanks for sharing.

I suggest that you ground yourself in everyday human life activities. And I suggest that you do some work on recognizing the beauty, magic, and love of Consciousness. The Consciousness you see all around you in everyday life. The colors, the music, the trees, the birds.

In the end this work is about discovering the Beauty of Consciousness. As the ego breaks apart that can be scary, but don't forget the Beauty of Consciousness that's all around and needs no ego to be seen or appreciated.

This work is not about no-self. It's about Beauty. Try not to get hung up on the no-self part.

Keep us updated with how that goes.

Don't forget how Beautiful you are.

Edited Monday at 01:17 PM by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

9 hours ago, Misato Katsuragi said:

but overall I'm fine.

Nice.

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Basman said:

The mind will figure things out if you focus and give it space to unfold.

[Staples]

Good luck, DPDR is a bitch. It's impossible to communicate how it feels to someone who's never gone through it.

My advice is:

Remember DPDR is something your body is doing, not you. There's not something wrong with you. Rather the brain and nervous system are struggling to grapple with new existential insights. It will pass, give your body time to integrate. 

Second is don't expect enlightenment to give you a sense of joy and love. Those are extra things you do in your mind, not Truth.

If you want joy and love, get a dog.

Edited Monday at 09:53 PM by Staples

[Leo Gura]

@Misato Katsuragi Could you tell us more details about how DPDR feels for you and what exactly makes you feel negative about reality?

I want to know what kind of negative thoughts are arising for you.

Thanks.

Edited Monday at 10:42 PM by Leo Gura

[ExploringReality]

The Good the True and The Beautiful!

 

[Osaid]

Fear still seems like something is known or assumed, like "DPDR", "schizophrenia", "instability", etc. 

In the same way that nihilism initially seems depressing, but that is actually meaning pushed onto meaninglessness (nihilism).

Similarly, "not knowing" seems scary if knowledge and assumptions about it are pushed onto it, like "this makes reality unstable" (still assumptive and of knowing), or if a new identity is known like "maybe I have schizophrenia" (still assumptive and of knowing).

You are really truly just grasping with "fear of the unknown", albeit with a metaphysical flair to it. You are on the "other side of the coin", so to speak. Rather than staying with the unknown, the mind attempts to grasp at the future to make up for the lack of knowledge. But it fears this grasping because of "what could happen", but "what could happen" is just more knowing on behalf of the future self. It's not true "not knowing", which could not actually be limited by anything like fear, because fear requires you to know something other than yourself to fear.

Meditation is good for letting self-referential ideas fizzle out 👍.

Edited Monday at 10:59 PM by Osaid

[Misato Katsuragi]

@Leo Gura I appreciate it at certain times for very brief periods, i've experienced some instances where i'm like wow reality is a magical beautiful thing so I'll try to see it that way more. and sit with it more.

What DPDR feels like, is like kinda similar to intense edible trips I had many years ago, it feels like all of reality is this thing you've never seen before despite you know cognitively what it is. like you can look at your brother and he looks exactly the same as he always does but now he looks like some creature you've never seen before, not because your hallucinating him looking any different, but what happens is its like my brain has reset all of its usual filters/beliefs about reality is so like my first time seeing a person and reality itself again, as they were reverted to null or something.

In this state reality feels like so alien to you, it feels like your in a different reality or some planet from how differently your perceiving reality, and meanwhile also your sense of what you are is completely shattered, and you aren't even a person or an animal you are just something with consciousness, thats  can like talk and reason but you have no real certainty on what you actually are. You can still talk to people and are able to say what your name is technically but, but what that is to you is basically nothing

This only happens like in the most extreme states, like imagine thats 10 and most days I feel like a 1 or 3 constantly. it feels extremely psychedelic reminds me of really bad edible trips I had several years ago at the high end.  And, ill feel a lot of meaninglessness sometimes, sometimes its the most horrifying existential dread randomly without clear cause, or like it feels like something awful happened in my life and its the end despite nothing happening, ton of emotions coming out of me as well. I think its just terrifying as you normal concept of what life is gets thrown out the window and your just left with, wtf is consciousness, wtf is comprehension, wtf is vision, and wtf is anything. 

i'm not sure if I explained it right but thats sort of kinda how I feel, i'm left in like a void where my feeling of certainty is erased for everything.

 

 

 

 

 

[Misato Katsuragi]

@Osaid yeah was thinking about that earlier about nihilism. like if you view the world as meaningless isn't that a meaning in of itself. so I do think all these fears is just me projecting like fears on whats happening to me like going crazy, rather then me being at actual risk. either way I could try meditation or something, tbh ive done lot more dismantling my beliefs and intense questioning rather then that so it may help.

[Misato Katsuragi]

@Staples 

I thank you for the feedback like, yeah I've noticed that the DPDR always hits when i'm really grappling with these intense existential insights, I never knew like just thoughts and realizations could like literally melt your mind like this.

and don't worry I mean enlightenment isn't something i'm pursuing, I just kinda like had a brief instance of satori or whatever you want to call it accidentally, as like I began thinking about stuff and then like it just hit me like a truck and it felt like I stepped on a landmine. before this I was just a guy who studied this for fun. I came here though as I knew this was a place that could potentially help me with advice.

 

 

[Misato Katsuragi]

@PurpleTree it may feel like im not real or I dont know who I am, and everything around me is just nothing but its alright lol. im used to these feelings

[PurpleTree]

41 minutes ago, Misato Katsuragi said:

@PurpleTree it may feel like im not real or I dont know who I am, and everything around me is just nothing but its alright lol. im used to these feelings

Well there is no you really

Me i can go to quite blissy one day to quite suffery the next day.

Right now it seems like this body is breaking down which causes suffering.

[Airendal]

Your experience resonates deeply with my own, over the past decade I too have struggled deeply with dissociation (ended up being clinically diagnosed with DID). In my teens, engaging with this line of content (including Leo’s work) led to intense awakenings that I wasn’t prepared to integrate. It ended up frightening me in ways and I "ran", stopped engaging with the work, and as result developed serious dissociation issues and something akin to psychosis in later years.

For me the solution to this was to pick the work back up, I had to relearn how to trust the machine of my body and mind, for it already contained all the insight and knowledge I needed to break free. In that my mind stopped being so cloudy, I no longer had disorganized and disjointed thoughts, and the clarity and emotional stability I experience now is baffling, if I didn't know better I'd say it too good to be true. For me it really was as Leo said above, in finding the beauty in it all, the love, that's what really began to rapidly dissolve the stuff inside of me that was holding things back causing unhealth.
 
It's been a half a year since then and I believe I can say that my issues in this regard have been "fixed", my perspectives have fundamentally shifted, and I find it more and more effortless to engage in healthy habit as I feel such a deep love for myself and the world. Maybe this will be inspiring to you, albeit I of course cannot promise it is the same for you, you will have to figure that out for yourself.

Best of luck.

[Starlight321]

It is strange but I had the symptoms how you describe it and for me it was a beautiful experience of coming into contact to the present moment. Maybe it helps to see that you are constructing the negative perspective and interpretation. Maybe you can resolve this issue. However, if that is too scary and you're too unstable ignore this post.

When I became conscious of these facts stated by you I felt like the mind and God is the ultimate trickster trying to fool me into different perspectives and interpretations and so I developed a playful attitude. 

I wish you to get well soon and the very best! 😊

 

[Staples]

When I first dealt with DPDR, I thought I was depressed and got on anti-depressants. It made my DPDR 10x worse. So if you are taking medication consider trying a different anti-depressant or work at getting off them entirely.

I am free of it now, once I got my life purpose back on track and did more human things.

DPDR is the result of the human body dealing with existential issues it is not fully equipped to handle. You want to step in and out of this work in a healthy way, full plunging into the abyss has a big cost.

Edited Tuesday at 10:40 PM by Staples

[VeganAwake]

That body saw reality in the raw!

"You" haven't actually developed anything.

What happened was reality was seen clearly without the filters/conditioning of the "You" character.

It was recognized because seeing the truth was desired greater than illusion!

❤️ 

[Misato Katsuragi]

@VeganAwake yeah I realize that like the you character was just something I made up so I could navigate life better but in reality I have no idea what I am really at the most fundamental level. sadly I didn't get to experience god, I just became literally nothing.