There are two big types of leftists

[Alexop]

I notice two big types:

1. The mature, more moderate left. Who is usually composed of 30 years old+ people who understand that our biggest concern right now is fixing the economy, taxing the super rich and lowering taxation on the middle class.

2. The new woke left. More radical and idealist, who is composed mainly of under 30 years old girls and androgynous nice guys, who focus mainly on the environment and identity politics, canceling and moralizing people. They are like a subculture. If the rockers wore leather pants with chains hanging on them, these kids have septum rings and put their pronouns on social media. People like us do things like this. Us vs. them mentality. Mainly Stage Blue masquerading as Stage Green. 

Personally I consider myself a moderate leftist, because I see how the super rich fuck me in the ass and fixing this should be our main concern. I understand that if I moralize and cancel people, they will hate me and demonize me. I understand that we have to negotiate and compromise with the capitalists because, otherwise we risk an ego backlash. These problems we have in society won't be fixed overnight. I understand the Maslow's pyramid of needs and Spiral Dynamics. People who have no food to put o the table, who can't pay their rent and bills, have no openness to expand their consciousness. They don't give a damn about Palestine, about other races, about LGBTQBLABLABLA, BECAUSE they are in SURVIVAL mode. But yea, studying psychology and economy is not as cool as identity politics. They can't even get their gender studies nonsense right. What is a man? What is a woman? And you are amazed when people laugh at you.

These kids make the moderates hate the left, and it sends the country back in time. Like they did in Sweden. Because of their push to take more and more refugees, the moderate people had enough and started voting right. Now we have the right wing in power deregulating the economy, privatizing healthcare, lowering taxes on the rich etc. Thank you very much dear kids!

Edited yesterday at 06:34 AM by Alexop

[Nivsch]

I like how you framed it as stage Blue disguised to green. Greta thunberg is one of the symbols of that.

Edited Sunday at 09:21 PM by Nivsch

[Alexop]

@Nivsch They manifest some Green though, but this aspect that they focus so much on defeating their enemies, unwilling to compromise, is mainly Blue. When I think of Green, I think of some feminine, empathic, flexible, smiley person, not an angry kid.

We can say excess of Green, but this can be deceiving. It would be focusing on the flavor/culture content not the level of consciousness.  

Edited Sunday at 10:17 PM by Alexop

[LambdaDelta]

Agreed, that's a pretty accurate summary. I recently had an insight into a related matter with a bit of a twist.

Quote

You have to be truthful to reality, even if the truth of it is ugly and untruthful. You can't go to a fucking remote tribe that's never seen a white person before and preach to them about Jesus, they will skin and eat you. Nor can you go to a Middle Eastern country wearing your trans rights backpack and expect to not be deported or jailed. This is idiocy, it's why progressives always lose and are bitter about the world not bending to their ideals, they're suffering in impotence. It's almost better being a rural self-deceived racist devil, at least you'll live a bit happier. A healthy degree of activism and progressivism is important, it's what's baked into evolution, and metaphysically into the impermanent structure of reality. This is what God is, and no liberal or conservative ideal can change that. These changes take place over very long terms that humans cannot deal with, but if you acquire enough perspective to see it from God's point of view, you'll understand it is all perfect and your life will be at peace.

You have to work with reality exactly as it is, because reality won't adjust itself to you.

If you're not doing that, you're just adding more fantasy to reality. And reality does not need more fantasy, what it needs is more reality, because all of reality is already a fantasy.

 

[Alexop]

@LambdaDelta God cares about all perspectives. God is a democrat. God is not moralizing, God negotiates, God compromises. Like a loving mother, not like an autistic macho dad. 

Even if my post sounds moralizing, take it more as a performative show. We still have to see their perspective and love them as they are. They don't have a purpose in life other than fucking up with politics, they are emotionally immature, pampered by their parents etc.

Edited Sunday at 11:07 PM by Alexop

[Basman]

Identity politics is easy to grasp. You just latch unto whatever side you resonate most with and go from there.

It is crazy how American voters especially seem to be more concerned with identity politics over policy. Even just the appearance of policy.

[Leo Gura]

Basically anyone under the age of 35 will have very immature and unworkable politics. Because they don't have enough life experience to understand how power and survival really works. Their politics will be some version of group-think, either left or right. It takes enormous life experience to understand why politics works as it does and not by your naive ideals.

Edited yesterday at 12:18 AM by Leo Gura

[Jodistrict]

This nicely summarizes what I have been trying to express here.   I  gave an example of a lady I knew who grew up as a fundamentalist Christian and turned into a woke lefty (its the same behavior).   The wokeism creates the bad policies which the voters correctly reject.  Does anyone with a brain really want men in women’s sports?    The democrats could be successful if they stick to economic reform issues.

Edited yesterday at 12:22 AM by Jodistrict

[Terell Kirby]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Basically anyone under the age of 35 will have very immature and unworkable politics.

35+ is cost of entry it seems, though doesn’t guarantee good politics. Lots of ignorance well into old age out there.

Edited yesterday at 12:43 AM by Terell Kirby

[Hardkill]

I generally agree with the OP. However, at the same time, many older people tend to be more stubborn with old world views that are outdated and need to be replaced by new modern-day views.

[Emerald]

Careful... let's not feed into a divide and conquer.

It can feel nice and ego-boosting to distance your own identity as "the mature moderate sensible leftist" from "those silly blue haired woke leftists with septum piercings".

But that weakens your own cause.

And instead of actually fighting together for economic justice and taxation of the rich... the "sensible leftists" spend all their revolutionary energy fighting wokeness.

But it's all identity-stuff... and a desire to be "one of the good" leftists.

[Alexop]

@Emerald true. We actually have to compromise ourselves and try to collaborate with them, so we can have a majority in parlament. In Sweden, you can see a clear division between them. The moderate lefties are the social democrats and the wokies are the left and the green parties. As I said, take the rant as a performative show, of course I understand your point.

I've actually dated a Swedish environment activist working for Green Peace, she was having meetings with Greta Thunberg and party leaders at work, she blocked the railways carrying wood in north Sweden. But she was the most feminine, loving and joyful girl I ever dated. So yes, careful with generalizations and division.

Edited yesterday at 06:59 AM by Alexop

[Alexop]

@Leo Gura ❤️ 

[Nivsch]

13 hours ago, Alexop said:

When I think of Green, I think of some feminine, empathic, flexible, smiley person, not an angry kid.

Exactly

[Basman]

6 hours ago, Alexop said:

The moderate lefties are the social democrats and the wokies are the left and the green parties. As I said, take the rant as a performative show, of course I understand your point.

Green parties are too ideologically entrenched and bullheaded to be politically effective in my opinion. They are circlejerks.

Edited yesterday at 12:22 PM by Basman

[Alexop]

@Basman the climate situation is dire. But you can't convince people through moralization and cancel culture. At most they'll do some greenwashing. 

I think we have to push the governments and corporations to invest in green tech as soon as possible. Especially cheap renewable batteries. 

When green tech is cheaper than dirty tech, then you'll see some real results. Stage Orange does what works in the market and brings profits, no matter the consequences.

Edited yesterday at 03:00 PM by Alexop

[Elliott]

We really need to stop using 'left and right'.

[Alexop]

11 minutes ago, Elliott said:

We really need to stop using 'left and right'.

More capitalism vs. more socialism if you want. This what I mean with left and right. Now that some people mistake it for progress vs. conservation is something else. In Romania, the progressive party is right wing.

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Alexop said:

More capitalism vs. more socialism if you want. This what I mean with left and right. Now that some people mistake it for progress vs. conservation is something else. In Romania, the progressive party is right wing.

It's not socialism either. For us being the 'intellectual side', we really need to be less reckless with language.

Edited yesterday at 04:01 PM by Elliott

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Alexop said:

When green tech is cheaper than dirty tech, then you'll see some real results. Stage Orange does what works in the market...

This is the exact kind of compromise that green parties aren't willing to make. Either we save (insert social issue) today or never, even if technology/culture aren't up to task yet. Green policy tend to make living more expensive which ends up primarily burdening society's poorest, like for example mandating the use of electric cars in inner cities. Or increasing tax on pollution, which customers end up paying via higher prices. Or increasing immigration in spite of social polarization.

It's "feel good" politics and categorically minority rule.

The Danish green party "Alternativet" published a write-up of all the potential downsides of their policies. It is in Danish so you'll need to use Google translate but it is a great read into how green parties can be politically ineffective. They essentially admit that their policies will be nonviable. I commend them for having the integrity to actually make this.

https://alternativet.dk/der-er-et-alternativ/politisk-program-og-nye-ministerier/ulemper-ved-vores-politiske-program

Edited yesterday at 04:05 PM by Basman