Awakening after being on the edge of suicide

[PolyPeter]

48 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

Thanks for the advice, but it doesn't really give me assurance that I would be okay on the other side of full surrender. I think it can be a good strategy to deal with negative thought spirals though 

you are welcome! 

What do you think about the idea that the identification with a certain mode of thinking, even the suffering that gets created by being unable to be certain /beforehand/ about the results of a -full surrender-, is what is causing you pain instead of something that has to do with the full surrender itself?

let me know if this makes any sense or I'll try to reformulate it if it doesn't. 

Edited Saturday at 09:05 PM by PolyPeter

[Tristan12]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's Infinite Consciousness which is equivalent to Infinite Love.   So all the fear is an illusion.  But remember that's not a license to go and harm the physical body.   No need for that when there is ego death.  And that doesn't even require psychedelics it can just be self inquiry meditation. 

Yeah I'm not asking about this for anything related to suicide. It's for progressing my spiritual development, and healing.

If I totally surrender (on 5-MeO-DMT for example) and reach ego death, is there any possibility that I could reach some deeply painful state that I could not get out of? You said that you would reach infinite love, but is there a possibility of going anywhere else? I'd imagine there are plenty of experiences that can be had beyond ego death. What about insanity for example? I've heard people talk about experiencing that on psychedelics and it's terrifying. If I totally surrender, could I fall into that and not be able to get myself out?

I have also heard that on the other side of ego death, there is no fear, because you're dead, so maybe there would be nothing to worry about.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Tristan12 said:

@Leo Gura @Inliytened1 Can you or anyone else help me out with this? I am working on getting better at surrendering because I can tell it is something I need to learn how to do at this point. When I did 5-MeO-DMT the other day, I was trying to surrender deeper, and I was getting better at it, but the main fear that I have is that if I totally let go of control, 100%, and merge with the universe, then I could end up in some painful hell realm, and not have any control to be able to get myself out of it. What would you say in response to this? I want to hear from someone who has gone through ego death and been on the other side of full surrender, to know if I really have anything to worry about by letting go completely.

You're looking for a guarantee of safety and there's just no having it.

You could surrender and horrible things happen to you. That's the whole Jesus story.

True surrender would involve accepting that. You accept what's true, which is that you just don't know how the future will unfold. But keep in mind that non-surrender, resistance, also does not guarantee you any future safety.

Practically, I would suggest you do your surrender in babysteps, a bit more each time. Rather than trying to do it all at once. That way you can see if it's right for you.

Also, I suggest that rather than playing into some fantasy of surrender and the future, what you surrender to is just Truth, which is the present state of consciousness. Don't even think about the future. Truth itself has a healing power. And Truth is found NOW. This makes surrender much more obvious and easy because there is no sense whatsoever resisting the NOW, since it's already here. This make surrender very obvious and natural.

Edited Saturday at 09:22 PM by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

@Daniel Balan 

 

[Inliytened1]

39 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

Yeah I'm not asking about this for anything related to suicide. It's for progressing my spiritual development, and healing.

If I totally surrender (on 5-MeO-DMT for example) and reach ego death, is there any possibility that I could reach some deeply painful state that I could not get out of? You said that you would reach infinite love, but is there a possibility of going anywhere else? I'd imagine there are plenty of experiences that can be had beyond ego death. What about insanity for example? I've heard people talk about experiencing that on psychedelics and it's terrifying. If I totally surrender, could I fall into that and not be able to get myself out?

I have also heard that on the other side of ego death, there is no fear, because you're dead, so maybe there would be nothing to worry about.

Not if it's ego death. What Leo is saying is that you could get a whole bunch of other alternatives other than awakening.  He's not wrong but that's the risk I guess you take with psychedelics.   With meditation you don't have to worry about that.    Here's my take.  If this is already a hell hole for you than what the fuck do you have to lose.  You can't die..because death is love.   So there's nowhere to go but to awaken.

Edited Saturday at 09:46 PM by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Tristan12 said:

Yeah I'm not asking about this for anything related to suicide. It's for progressing my spiritual development, and healing.

If I totally surrender (on 5-MeO-DMT for example) and reach ego death, is there any possibility that I could reach some deeply painful state that I could not get out of? You said that you would reach infinite love, but is there a possibility of going anywhere else? I'd imagine there are plenty of experiences that can be had beyond ego death. What about insanity for example? I've heard people talk about experiencing that on psychedelics and it's terrifying. If I totally surrender, could I fall into that and not be able to get myself out?

I have also heard that on the other side of ego death, there is no fear, because you're dead, so maybe there would be nothing to worry about.

Fucking 5 meo. i remember my beginnings with 5meo, it would be something like: I want to destroy my mind, shatter it completely, give it my all. And at the same time, terrified of doing it. It's absolutely terrifying, over and over again. And to make it more joyful, the first few times the experience was that reality was an infinite, dead void, and the sensation that invaded me was a dead sensation that froze my soul, a cosmic gong that sounded and reality was revealed, and reality was... absolutely nothing. Then I would get up and walk around the room, feeling absolute horror. Party. And then I would do it again, up to 4 times a day, then another day, but from the first time I did it until I dared to do it the second time, a year passed, and I had to do more that 10 times full dissolution until reality opens up and the absolute is revealed, your heart opens and the absolute light of existence manifests, the totality, and you are that. 

Edited Saturday at 10:36 PM by Breakingthewall

[Tristan12]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're looking for a guarantee of safety and there's just no having it.

You could surrender and horrible things happen to you. That's the whole Jesus story.

True surrender would involve accepting that. You accept what's true, which is that you just don't know how the future will unfold. But keep in mind that non-surrender, resistance, also does not guarantee you any future safety.

Practically, I would suggest you do your surrender in babysteps, a bit more each time. Rather than trying to do it all at once. That way you can see if it's right for you.

Also, I suggest that rather than playing into some fantasy of surrender and the future, what you surrender to is just Truth, which is the present state of consciousness. Don't even think about the future. Truth itself has a healing power. And Truth is found NOW. This makes surrender much more obvious and easy because there is no sense whatsoever resisting the NOW, since it's already here. This make surrender very obvious and natural.

That's sort of the answer I came up with myself. I feel like there is no guarantee that I won't have a bad experience, but I think it's about trusting that the universe has my best interest in mind, and that whatever happens as a result of surrendering and merging with infinite consciousness will be for the best, and I will be okay in the end. You surrender to allow whatever needs to happen to happen. There is no point resisting that.

I have been moving in baby steps like you suggest and it works well for me. I think it's very much about building up trust that I will be okay, because I have so much fear and resistance within me and it makes it so hard to let go of control.

 

Something I saw in my 5meo trip the other day is that I live my life thinking that me being a human is what's real, and that doing 5meo and reaching a high consciousness state is just a temporary state, but in reality, the opposite is true. The high consciousness states you reach on 5meo is what's true and real, and seeing myself as a human in my day to day life is an illusion. Because of that, seeing myself as this human that is so afraid of everything is something I'm imagining. When I leave human life on 5meo, and I see that my true self does not have any fear, I need to see that this is my true state. I am God imagining myself as this terrified human. All of this fear and resistance I hold is an illusion that I as God am stuck in, and when I realize that, I see that in reality I am safe and I don't have to be afraid, and so I can totally surrender and release all of this fear I hold. I didn't get to that point, but I could see the potential for it happening.

It was uncomfortable, because I was trying to surrender and go deeper, but at the same time I was afraid of letting go completely. What if I start screaming and running around? What if I embarrass myself or get in trouble? I can't control myself if I let go completely. But it was like it was calling me saying "Tristan... Tristan... wake up" I could start to see that I am something so much bigger than my human self, and for me to fully leave my human self and embody what I really am is such a strange and unfamiliar feeling, especially when my human self is always so afraid and wants to always stay with what is comfortable and familiar.

It wasn't a scary experience, I was just wrestling with myself, squirming around, trying to be okay with letting go. But I made progress through doing that, and I could probably go deeper next time. Baby steps like you said

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

I think it's about trusting that the universe has my best interest in mind,

It doesn't.

[Tristan12]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't.

Lol. I guess I say that in regard to my specific life path. I feel like total surrender is a necessary step for my healing and spiritual development, so if I work towards that and achieve that, the universe isn't going to give me an experience that fucks up my life a whole lot more, in the same way that it won't let me kill myself and throw everything away. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Tristan12 said:

isn't going to give me an experience that fucks up my life a whole lot more, in the same way that it won't let me kill myself and throw everything away. 

Sure, that only happens to other people 

[Tristan12]

@Breakingthewall I'm just saying, I believe I have good reason to trust the guidance of the universe at this point and trust that I will be okay, considering everything that has been going on in my life. That's sort of what I've been saying throughout this whole thread

 

[Yimpa]

Ngl, I'm not doing all right.

And that's all Good!

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

@Breakingthewall I'm just saying, I believe I have good reason to trust the guidance of the universe at this point and trust that I will be okay, considering everything that has been going on in my life. That's sort of what I've been saying throughout this whole thread

 

 5meo territory is uncharted territory. There's a chance that reality is horrifying in its essence—that's the feeling. But then you think about what you said, surely not. There's something that tells me it's impossible, that the essence of reality is something good, but you don't know for 100% sure. There's a chance it isn't. It doesn't matter that thousands have said it's wonderful, blah blah  they could all be wrong. 5meo territory is wild territory and you are absolutely alone in it

Edited Saturday at 10:40 PM by Breakingthewall

[Tristan12]

@Yimpa What do you mean? What's going on?

[Yimpa]

Just now, Tristan12 said:

@Yimpa What do you mean? What's going on?

I'm starting to realize that I am you and you are me. Like, the distinction between anything and everything is fading and merging back into One.

What was really profound is I was staring at myself so intensely, as if for the first time in forever.

It's not that the human dies, rather, it's a profound recontextualization of what THIS is.

What you are seeking is not to end your suffering, but to fully accept yourself as Love.

THIS One Love!

[Tristan12]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 5meo territory is uncharted territory. There's a chance that reality is horrifying in its essence—that's the feeling. But then you think about what you said, surely not. There's something that tells me it's impossible, that the essence of reality is something good, but you don't know for 100% sure. There's a chance it isn't. It doesn't matter that thousands have said it's wonderful, blah blah  they could all be wrong. 5meo territory is wild territory and you are absolutely alone in it

My experiences with 5-MeO-DMT so far have been intimately tied together with this higher self or higher intelligence that has been guiding and directing my life. When I use 5-MeO-DMT it often feels like my higher self is using it to communicate with me and guide me. So that makes me trust that I will be okay to surrender completely on it, and that nothing catastrophic will happen, for the same reason that I haven't been able to kill myself.

Maybe in the future what you're saying could happen, but I trust that at this point in my life I'll be okay

[Someone here]

@Tristan12

Might sound silly to some . but I have deep compassion for you when you said you  are afraid to die to not go to a hell realm .. as it plagued me as well. All I can say those notions are gone.  Are you familiar with Jim Newman?  Also @Princess Arabia is good at conveying this point im about to make .

There is just what is immediately appearing already..and no one is separate from this to do anything about this. In seeing this..all problems were left unsolved..yet disappeared. There is simply what already is immediately appearing to happen.

This was solved before apparent liberation btw.Even before that it was more or less settled via contemplating alone .

 Another thing ..If you want to completely be free of those fears..the only real way is to go to hell and die.

(I'm speaking metaphorically. chillax mods).

The best way.. that I know of..to get to heaven is by gowing to hell and die.. and then eventually wake up in heaven.

Use advice at own risk.

(Although absolutely speaking..there is no risk..only reward . there is nothing to be afraid of. Everything is temporary. there is nothing bad that can happen to you in the ultimate level)

[Someone here]

@Tristan12 also I suggest reading and listening to Robert Adams.  He is a an american classical nonduality teacher who died in the 90s. Google his name and read and listen to him.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Tristan12 said:

My experiences with 5-MeO-DMT so far have been intimately tied together with this higher self or higher intelligence that has been guiding and directing my life. When I use 5-MeO-DMT it often feels like my higher self is using it to communicate with me and guide me. So that makes me trust that I will be okay to surrender completely on it, and that nothing catastrophic will happen, for the same reason that I haven't been able to kill myself.

Maybe in the future what you're saying could happen, but I trust that at this point in my life I'll be okay

My experience is different. The absolute perspective makes me see that I have no limits and that the current circumstance is simply a circumstance. You are existence, and its content is indifferent. But then you return to the human perspective, and it's not like that. Anything horrible from the human perspective could happen, from the absolute perspective it's just existence, and it's wonderful, unlimited, absolute, full of existence. Always is now and now is total, unfathomable, full of life, and I'm that

But then you go back to the human, and you don't want any shit in your life. It's very difficult being someone really enlightened, seems impossible, but have some moments is very possible , and not only with 5meo, but at the beginning it's a great help

 

Edited Saturday at 10:56 PM by Breakingthewall

[MsNobody]

You are talking about 5meo like an evangelical talks about God. There is no God guiding you, the God is you and it’s time for radical self responsibility, you are driving full speed into a wall and even tho you are aware of it, you accelerate anyways. If you go into it with naivety and cockiness it will bite you in the ass, ego backlash for sure. 
 

It took me almost a year to recover and integrate fully from my 5meo trips, a fragile ego doesn’t think clearly, to transcend the ego, first you need a healthy one. A fragile ego is the most dangerous thing, it’s death territory, and you are very well aware of it, don’t fool yourself, your life is in your hands, don’t talk like a fanatic saying that there is a force guiding you, take 100% responsibility, your life is precious. 
 

There is no path to enlightenment without self compassion, it’s not very compassionate to smash your ego over and over and expect it to reach bliss in the blink of an eye. We all know it’s not a smart way to do enlightenment work.
 

You keep saying that if you surrender it will all be ok, knowing very well that you created this thread because deep inside you know that is the way to self destruction, if it was really part of a flow you would have done it already. Listen to the intuition that made you create this thread and be cautious. 
 

Our ego is not evil, it’s just a less developed part of our soul, it deserves respect and it serves a purpose. Give yourself a break, give your body a break. Taking 5meo is like trying to pass 220 volts into a machine that only comports 110, eventually it will break. You must be wise and prepare your body for the load. It’s not a coincidence that monks sit in stillness for years to get to where 5meo takes you. Psychedelics are an amazing tool, but you need to be smart on how to use it. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Sending you love 💕