So tired of gurus telling me I need to suffer first to deserve happiness

[Vynce]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course as you develop you take things less personally so suffering is reduced.

Some things just roll off your back.

No.

There is bad trips.

There's the difficultly of facing harsh truths about yourself and reality.

There's destablization of your mind.

There's various risks and dangers.

Any of that. Plus physical damage. Plus the suffering of losing your access to God.

The last point. Super underrated. 
And I see it rarely being spoken about here. 

God can be this beautiful little fairy that dances with you at a summer festival, only to vanish like she was never there. Some times almost feel heartbroken by God. 
 

Why is no one talking about this. 

 

God is not something to learn or know and keep. It’s this 10/10 woman, that comes along, messes up your life and leaves you like the NPC you are  
 

Of course it’s not always like that.

[Davino]

@Shodburrito Anything worthy in life involves sacrifice. In the measure that you give yourself, you shall receive. If for the things of this world, this is the law, for the ultimate worth, which is the unveiling of what I am, the nature of consciousness itself, the sacrifice is the greatest.

[Davino]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you said a word, you were operating within the framework of meaning, that is, of the structured mind. True mystical opening doesn't occur at that level; it's a liquid level, where no word means anything, since any meaning is solid. Everything solid must melt to become what you are without the conceptual mind or the energetic barriers of the psyche. God is a mental construct, and it's absolutely impossible for the phrase: You are God creating reality, to be anything but completely false. 

Oh so now you tell God what it can do and what it can't do?!!

I've contemplated a lot what is your path and I've come to the conclusion is the full liberation of the self knot contraction and full openness to reality (limitless). I don't know if you've reached infinity yet although surely you will at some point. All that you're doing is necessary I've done it myself ans it's epic but it's not God, it's still very human-centric "liberating from the human bounds" but what Human are you talking about bro? Truly God has no restrictions for anything, it's not bounded to any particular state, experience, or mode of being, it happens within and without that and is existence itself, pure Consciousness, it's fucking God, It's the Infinity that manifests all infinities/finities. That's what you are.

I'm sorry you haven't realized God but don't gaslight me. Hopefully one day it strucks you like a thunderbolt. It's the ultimate blessing. Realizing your Infinite Godly nature is no joke.

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Davino said:

sorry you haven't realized God but don't gaslight me.

I'm not gaslighting, I am merely pointing out something absolutely obvious, and I do so because I see it as a barrier—I can’t help but highlight it. I’m not doing it to be a smartass; I do it because the idea of God being discussed in this forum is absolutely impossible. "God" is just a word, and it can point to various possibilities. But here, specifically, when people talk about God, they refer to something that is performing an action, dreaming, that has a result, the apparent reality, and that is doing this for a reason: because it wants to. And it wants to for another reason: because it wants to experience itself as deeply as possible.

This idea is limited in every way, and anyone who clings to it is trapped. God cannot experience itself "as deeply as possible" because its depth is total. it is not moving from a place of lesser depth to one of greater depth. This is a limitation, and it limits, and beyond that, it is impossible. God is not creating this reality for a reason, love, because this implies the opposite possibility , when in fact, the infinite is not moving or doing anything, it just is. It is absolutely incomprehensible because it is infinite, and to comprehend it with the mind is finite.

Any understanding of God is finite and, therefore, incorrect. The only thing you can do is grasp your own essence, what you are, and realize that the mind is just a toy that occurs within the infinite, and therefore, it cannot understand it. It is absolutely incomprehensible because "understanding" itself is merely an apparent creation of the infinite.

God is the totality, and totality is not a mind. Minds are just toys that appear within it and are ultimately meaningless. The infinite has no meaning, no purpose, no will, and no intelligence—these arise within it as apparent realities, as relative movements of the absolute reflecting upon itself.

To be in the "mind of God" is to be deceived because God has infinite minds, and none of them mean anything at all. To surrender to God is to surrender your reason and open your heart. The "God" being discussed here is not God—it is a god, and its relevance is no greater than that of a fly.

Do you know the real God? It's just the infinite being , without anything else. Anything else is just an appearance. The only God that exists is you, and you are not doing anything, you are just being. Being includes everything, right now you are, that is God in all it's infinite power. You don't need to create, dream, or do anything, you are, always, the absence of limits is this, and it's always being, absolutely. It's absolutely direct, inevitable, you can't avoid it, you just are the absolute flowing in itself always. Can't you see it? There is not any god, it's this, the absolute in all it's power, do you remember when you were a kid? Nothing was separate, now is exactly the same. It's absolutely meaningless, just is. That's all, and it's wonderful, is total 

So maybe right now you're thinking: Yes, but then why are things ordered, or perfect ?You're already lost. You can't think that and at the same time be open to God, because if you do, you're involved in a movement within infinity, and that movement can never, under any circumstances, grasp infinity. It's a trap that can keep you going around in circles. The only way is dropping the mind, it's obvious, anything else is a trap. 

Edited Thursday at 09:53 PM by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Davino said:

Oh so now you tell God what it can do and what it can't do?!!

No, I'm telling you what you can do and what you can't do to be opened to God . It's annoying and arrogant, I know 😅

Edited Thursday at 10:01 PM by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

@Davino @Breakingthewall

 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Davino @Breakingthewall

 

That's god. Absolutely direct, being. It's not dreaming, it's being. Dreaming is indirect, is an action. No action is taking place, all that you see, the infinite cosmos, is just being. Being is infinite, unfathomable, absolute, total, direct. This, is the whole thing. Feel it deeply, because you are that. It's too obvious . Infinite different faces for the same core. Call it god if you want, but it's doing nothing, it's inevitable, so let's open our heart to it, nothing else could be done 

Edited Thursday at 10:12 PM by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's god. Absolutely direct, being. It's not dreaming, it's being. Dreaming is indirect, is an action. No action is taking place, all that you see, the infinite cosmos, is just being. Being is infinite, unfathomable, absolute, total, direct. This, is the whole thing. Feel it deeply, because you are that. It's too obvious . Infinite different faces for the same core. Call it god if you want, but it's doing nothing, it's inevitable, so let's open our heart to it, nothing else could be done 

 

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

😂

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall I find most of the things you say accurate. 

I think one day we should meet in real life and trip. Besides that, we should schedule a video talk, what this medium can do has already been done, we need a more direct connection.

[Yimpa]

And then they got married happily ever after 

[thedoorsareopen]

I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that meditating for two weeks straight was difficult. I consider myself less advanced than you, but I did over 80 hours in a week and it was pretty great. Better than dealing with my regular life most of the time, frankly.

[Something Funny]

On 3/19/2025 at 10:26 PM, Leo Gura said:

I cook.

Activities like cooking, showering, driving also present good opportunities to keep practicing your meditation while in action.

I see. Also, how do you meditate for that long every day? Do you sit motionless or do you walk around, or lay on your back? Whenever I tried to sit is a standard cross legged meditation for more than an hours, my back would give out and I would start shaking and stuff.

[Twentyfirst]

It's a sick thing but you gotta learn to love the suffering. You have to suffer and the best gurus lie because if they said the truth you would never embark on the journey and the planet can never awaken. It's not entirely a lie because it does become flowery and nice after the suffering. Mainstream gurus water down the truth because the masses can't handle it so that's where you get self help with spirituality. At most only a couple humans in history ever woke up without a dark night of the soul. The rest have a dark night of the soul whether short or long depends on that person. Even people who have a random spontaneous awakening without a path or effort have suffering before or after that. Suffering serves a few purposes. It's a warning light for when you are away from truth and it keeps blinking to remind you to do maintenance, it's beating down the ego and erosion of the ego because the ego is nutty, and it's preparing you for death so when you are on your death bed you aren't freaking out. If you didn't want challenge you would have never incarnated in the first place

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 09:20 AM by Twentyfirst

[JosephKnecht]

“If you want to know who rules over you, just look for who you are not allowed to criticize.” ― Voltaire

[Lise]

On 3/20/2025 at 2:16 PM, Leo Gura said:

Of course as you develop you take things less personally so suffering is reduced.

Some things just roll off your back.

No.

There is bad trips.

There's the difficultly of facing harsh truths about yourself and reality.

There's destablization of your mind.

There's various risks and dangers.

Any of that. Plus physical damage. Plus the suffering of losing your access to God.

I've actually experienced losing access to God, because I've realized him both sober and on psychedelics. But I wouldn't describe it as suffering. Yes, it's a kind of "I lost something important" sensation, and perhaps I didn't realize him completely, so that's why I don't suffer, but perhaps this suffering is mostly Leo's own suffering? And you're kind of projecting it onto the others also following this truth-seeking path, in a slightly arrogant, hierarchical way?

I also saw the last thread about Shodburrito leaving the platform, and I know you said enough, but this conversation is super foundational for the use of this platform! And it's clearly not resolved; why has nobody answered Shodburrito's very well-formulated arguments with actual arguments?

I think Shodburrito has good points. That doesn't diminish the general teachings of actualized.org. But perhaps we all need to be more critical about the teachings, especially about suffering. And perhaps the power went a little to Leo's head, more than he'd like to admit.

And yes, this forum is kind of littered with bullshit. But so are a lot of stage green environments. And every cloud has a silver lining. There's too much saint worship here. Did we fall into the trap of worshipping the golden calf? I think yes. And actions speak louder than words.

PS: the golden calf was perhaps a bad comparison, but the idea is that perhaps following Moses or Jesus or Leo is something to be done more carefully.

PPS: hold the ideas in high regard, not the person.

PPPS: this forum at least allows you to have a good discussion. LUnlike twitter and bluesky. Just there's very few people that have replied in a way that actually address the issue.

PPPPS: Maybe a little sandwich is good. I really appreciate Leo thinking through his videos, taking responsibility for his following. But maybe some of his teachings are influenced by him thinking he knows better. He still is not the most harmful in the self help field, and it's quite valuable that he tries to inform us about the fact that we are slaves, and things like that.

Edited Friday at 08:00 PM by Lise

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Davino said:

@Breakingthewall I find most of the things you say accurate. 

I think one day we should meet in real life and trip. Besides that, we should schedule a video talk, what this medium can do has already been done, we need a more direct connection.

Yeah why not, sure would be good, and we share same county if I'm not wrong.

But if you found what I said accurate , how do you reconcile this with: I am God dreaming reality out of love? Don't you see the error in that phrase on all fronts?

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Lise said:

I've actually experienced losing access to God, because I've realized him both sober and on psychedelics. But I wouldn't describe it as suffering. Yes, it's a kind of "I lost something important" sensation, and perhaps I didn't realize him completely, so that's why I don't suffer, but perhaps this suffering is mostly Leo's own suffering? And you're kind of projecting it onto the others also following this truth-seeking path, in a slightly arrogant, hierarchical way?

What is the alternative? To act like this work isn't difficult?

The Buddha's core teach was that all of life is suffering. No one whines about the Buddha. But when I say this work is hard, then people somehow make it about me.

It's not about me.

You guys have no idea yet what degree of suffering exists in the world. You live in a cocoon of comfort and spiritual fantasy. Life is harder than anything I say.

You are underestimating the harshness of life. I am not overestimating it. What is truly arrogant is thinking life should be easy.

Quote

I also saw the last thread about Shodburrito leaving the platform, and I know you said enough, but this conversation is super foundational for the use of this platform! And it's clearly not resolved; why has nobody answered Shodburrito's very well-formulated arguments with actual arguments?

The reason I didn't respond to his points is because he has been on this forum for years, always stubborn and closedminded, never willing to learn from the good advice given to him. Always with a negative attitude, insisting on his own bad ideas.

I tried to help him many times with genuine advice, and he never accepted nor appreciated it. So I will not waste any more of my time responding to him.

Making this about me it the final straw.

Do not waste and abuse my time here. I pour so much of my energy here giving serious, genuine advice. If you guys abuse it and then gaslight me for it, I will start banning such people. And when you post your final fuck-you letter here to justify yourself, I will not even waste my time reading it, never mind responding to it.

If you do not want to do hardcore difficult work, you should not be speaking to me. You should be working so hard at developing yourself that you come here crying how difficult it is.

Edited Friday at 09:47 PM by Leo Gura

[LambdaDelta]

10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

we share same county if I'm not wrong

Is that right? So do I with Davino, we already talked via video and should meet IRL at some point. Why not make it a threesome?

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

Leo thank you for being such a helping hand. I've been active on this forum for a little less than a year or so, but I noticed how forum users have been here longer and then a moment comes where they blow up before leaving. Like a case of forum users gone wild haha.

This work is very difficult and challenging, people want to avoid suffering and take short cuts. Not just with spiritual work and epistemology but also everything else in life.