If we live in the same world ..why nobody agrees on anything?

[Someone here]

This is a philosophical question..but also connects to spirituality.

If we all live in the same world ..why everyone has different versions of what is true and what is false ?  I was just browsing some philosophical videos on YouTube and almost in every different video there was a different perspective being discussed.  This is a foundational question in Epistemology. Of course the most foundational question in Epistemology is the "how do we know. Anything at all ?" Question. But the question I'm proposing here is "Why there are different kinds of perspectives that people hold about any subject ..be it about ontology or politics or spirituality etc?".

Look at the thread about Christianity..half the crowd were basically raised as Christians or have converted to it or whatever in any case they hold a Christian faith and they are trying to make Christianity compatible with Actualized.org teachings and Leo's teaching which is obviously absurd.  This work is not about belief. Of course you can cherrypick some valuable wisdom from the bible ..but you can't say the bible is really what should be considered the highest quality spiritual text right now in this era .

A possible explanation I suggested in that thread that it basically boils down to brainwashing or conditioning. Muslims are conditioned with their Islamic worldview..Christians are conditioned with their Christian worldview...etc . So is that the reason why there is so much disagreement between people and a big deal of confusion around truth? That it basically boils down to what kind of information you receive and consume ? If you consume science you will have a scientific lens with which you see the world..if you have a religious upbringing you will have a religious lens with which you see the world etc . That's obviously one reason or one explanation. But are there other reasons ? Brainstorm some of the reasons and share them please. 

[Princess Arabia]

This question is the basis of everything. It's more profound than you can imagine; even though not really.  My answer is this and, of course, there will be differences of opinions. 

It's all stories. What's appearing is not a story. What's being said about what's appearing is. How can we all have the same stories about what's appearing when the individual lives in it's own dream world. The person thinks it's real and everything that appears around that individual is real and it builds a story around what appears. Each story will be different because each individual sees itself differently. Out of that energy comes separation and it's own beliefs and ideas about the world it believes it lives in. This is also a story.

[Hojo]

Infinity. It is all those things at the same time. You can make up a random theoretical possibility that can't be disproven and by definition of God its true.

Like I can say your body is made up of tiny robot insects and they are in your eyes shaking their butts to produce your vision and that you are just the hivemind collective of all these insects experience and its true.

God can be see as many different things each one seemingly total and ending but there is always more with God.

Edited yesterday at 12:19 AM by Hojo

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This question is the basis of everything. It's more profound than you can imagine; even though not really.  My answer is this and, of course, there will be differences of opinions. 

It's all stories. What's appearing is not a story. What's being said about what's appearing is. How can we all have the same stories about what's appearing when the individual lives in it's own dream world. The person thinks it's real and everything that appears around that individual is real and it builds a story around what appears. Each story will be different because each individual sees itself differently. Out of that energy comes separation and it's own beliefs and ideas about the world it believes it lives in. This is also a story.

I'm aware of this line of reasoning. But there is an objective world in front of our eyes . If the individual is constructing a story about "what is " then can't he/she see easily through that fantasy since it doesn't correspond with the objective world ?

What's wrong with those Christians lol 😂? 

Welcome to humanity. People form opinions based on many sources..often using badly flawed methods. It’s inherent in our evolutionary psychology to give excessive weight to the things we directly experience while minimizing the importance of contradictory evidence especially if we don’t experience it ourselves. No one has ever even seen Jesus as Leo have said.  

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Infinity. It is all those things at the same time. You can make up a random theoretical possibility that can't be disproven and by definition of God its true.

Like I can say your body is made up of tiny robot insects and they are in your eyes shaking their butts to produce your vision and that you are just the hivemind collective of all these insects experience and its true.

God can be see as many different things each one seemingly total and ending but there is always more with God.

😂 dude you killed me .

Then again you know where does this lead ? It's basically the same idea that @Princess Arabia said..that everyone are making shit up . But at some point your insects theory will hit a wall called the objective world . Reality is going to test your theory's ass and prove it wrong if it was indeed wrong .

Or are you an Epistemological nihilist and you believe in absolute relativity? 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

If the individual is constructing a story about "what is " then can't he/she see easily through that fantasy since it doesn't correspond with the objective world ?

No, not when there's no reason or cause and effect behind "what is". What is is freedom appearing as what is. Freedom doesn't need a reason or else it wouldn't be free. I'm trying not to sound too non-dual and woo woo, but any other explanation would just be another speculated story and even though this is a story it's more true to what's the case.  

To the individual nothing is a fantasy, except what it creates to be a fantasy. So it cannot see through anything that's "unreal", because, to it, everything is real, even it's own stories.

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

.that everyone are making shit up

Not intentionally. They believe it to be true, with the exception for when they're actually making shit up. Either way it's all stories about what's appearing. A bird shits on a car. Thats freedom/Absolute/This or whatever appearing to shit on a car. That happened. Why it shitted on that car is what the person is making up. 

Edited yesterday at 12:28 AM by Princess Arabia

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

No, not when there's no reason or cause and effect behind "what is". What is is freedom appearing as what is. Freedom doesn't need a reason or else it wouldn't be free. I'm trying not to sound too non-dual and woo woo, but any other explanation would just be another speculated story and even though this is a story it's more true to what's the case.  

To the individual nothing is a fantasy, except what it creates to be a fantasy. So it cannot see through anything that's "unreal", because, to it, everything is real, even it's own stories.

Got it . I think its true but its quite paradoxical and twisted 🥨. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Got it . I think its true but its quite paradoxical and twisted 🥨. 

Of course. That's why we make up stories to make sense of the Absolute freedom that everything is.  

[Hojo]

@Someone here Once your body shuts down objectively reality is seen to be an idea that can't be proven. Yes true because of God but not the truth. You see objective reality and insects creating you are the same thing take a different form. When insects take over your vision its God doing it when you look out at the scenery its God doing it. God being every single conclusion you can think.

Edited yesterday at 12:54 AM by Hojo

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Not intentionally. They believe it to be true, with the exception for when they're actually making shit up. Either way it's all stories about what's appearing. A bird shits on a car. Thats freedom/Absolute/This or whatever appearing to shit on a car. That happened. Why it shitted on that car is what the person is making up. 

The bird shitted(is it shitted or shat ?)on the car because it had 3 course meal that day ? You deny cause and effect ? Of course there is no separation between the cause and effect . There is no actual separation even though the world does appear to be consisting of separate discrete physical objects which interact with each other lineary.  That's how it appears . But existence is like one soup of stuff just unfolding inevitably without purpose or intelligence or you might say "intentions " behind it ?

Edited yesterday at 01:34 AM by Someone here

[Someone here]

44 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Someone here Once your body shuts down objectively reality is seen to be an idea that can't be proven. Yes true because of God but not the truth. You see objective reality and insects creating you are the same thing take a different form. When insects take over your vision its God doing it when you look out at the scenery its God doing it. God being every single conclusion you can think.

Your mind is wacky dude 😂.  But I think I understand what you're saying . You're saying there is no such thing as objective reality .so if Jerry from Tom & Jerry believed the moon is made of cheese instead of rocks and dust then its true ? I argued before for relativism and idealism/solipsism.  But recently in my readings I'm leaning more towards there being objective world that should not be however it wants or switching according to our wishes. 

[Aaron p]

The world doesn't exist bro. There are just gods having dreams that interject with eachother. Ultimately even this is false. For you, in your universe...the idea of other gods having dreams is fake and your dream is literally the only thing there. That's at least the spiritual dogma I've adopted. But that's what Leo says and I've verified stuff he said that's impossible before so

Review his episode about perception being the only thing that exists. I think it's called "what if perception is all that exists" or something. What this means is, we are all basically just agreeing on what reality is. Making it up in a sense. Like why associate the word blue with the sky. Why make that noise with your vocal chords to describe the sky..."blue"? Made up homes. Fabricated. We just all agree on it and our perceptions fall in line. Who knows, maybe what I've grown up to consistently call blue is nowhere near what you experience when you look at the sky...what you've grown up calling "blue". Nothing exists. 

Edited yesterday at 01:58 AM by Aaron p

[Hojo]

@Someone hereGod is a flat 2d screen that acts like it can go into, and be in 3d. There is something as objective reality but its not solid, its like pixels on your monitor screen. If you looked at your windows homescreen and said there is large grassy hill there I am going to run to it and thats objective reality and we can all see it, is what you are describing. I am saying the display can take change from the display of a green grassy hill to insects shaking their butts really fast and there is no difference its the same thing, God. Objective reality is infinite, look at the stars, it can take any form and is infinite just by using our eyes. But when we introduce metaphysics, it gets a million times crazier infinity, and now literally anything can be creating you, you only find out when you see what it is, and it can take infinite forms. Your God and my God can look different but both are just pixels on the physical and metaphysical screens of God (nothing).

Imagine you saw the grassy hill desktop wallpaper on your monitor. You say I can climb that hill! You walk towards it but you cant walk you are on a pc. So you get a bunch of images that look like you are getting closer and switch your desktop wallpaper  over and over to make it look like you are walking closer. You get to the top of the hill and are now looking off of it but you didn't move anywhere you just kept changing your desktop wallpaper to make it look like you were climbing a hill.

That is what is happening irl but in a simulation that automatically does it for you.

You are essentially asking what is possible to happen on this desktop background and why do people see it differently if God is real. Well we might have roughly the same collection of images but we see them differently, because there is more than just what we see we exist as something that we cant see.

Tom and jerry eating moon cheese is real and is objective reality.

Edited yesterday at 02:04 AM by Hojo

[gambler]

Well maybe there is something motivating people’s differing interpretations on things. So take into account people’s motivation or lack of one. Those who are motivated to throw all religion to the dustbin of history will have their own perspective shaped by this. Those that see the value in the evolution of Christianity, might not see the big deal in their own perspective. There may be other motivating factors too. 

Edited yesterday at 02:23 AM by gambler

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

The bird shitted(is it shitted or shat ?)on the car because it had 3 course meal that day ? You deny cause and effect ? Of course there is no separation between the cause and effect . There is no actual separation even though the world does appear to be consisting of separate discrete physical objects which interact with each other lineary.  That's how it appears . But existence is like one soup of stuff just unfolding inevitably without purpose or intelligence or you might say "intentions " behind it ?

There's cause and effect appearing but it's the Absolute appearing as cause and effect. All the differences of opinions is the Absolute appearing as people having differences of opinions. It appears as linear, it appears as separation and it appears as everything that's appearing. It appears as denial of cause and effect, it appears as....you name it. 

Everything is empty and has no separate reality on it's own. You think they're people having differences of opinions because you think you're a separate being with opinions of your own so you see everything that appears in relation to you. Youre the supposedly center of the universe and you see others because you think you're an other. They are all just bodies and it's just voices and talking. It's free to appear as anything and appears as differences of opinion. Doesn't matter what I say, 'cause it's just the Absolute saying it and the Absolute reading it. Not really though, because there's just typing and reading with nothing behind it. It's freedom happening. Thoughts, feelings, disagreements, whatever, it's all Absolute happening. It also appears as a sense of separation. Which is where we come in and it's everything you think you know humans to be because it's also appearing as knowing. Knowing is an illusion that arises with the energy of me. That's our apparent demise because we're on a quest to know. We know we are but because we're not we keep seeking to know, but it never happens because there's no one to know anything since it's the Absolute appearing as such. It's fucked up. We're fucked. Not really. Freedom appearing as fucked. 

 

Edited yesterday at 05:31 AM by Princess Arabia

[Atb210201]

We have different opinions about what is right and good and what is wrong and bad.

That's why we go on different roads and maybe even our roads are in conflict with each other and can't quite go together sometimes.

Someone sees one road's end as harmful and dangerous and someone else sees the other road's end as harmful and dangerous, so the roads clash in an attempt of protection from the dangerous ends of the roads.

It's a matter of cause and effect that we differ on.

We see different causes and different effects so we have to go to war.

Edited yesterday at 03:55 PM by Atb210201

[Someone here]

17 hours ago, Aaron p said:

The world doesn't exist bro. There are just gods having dreams that interject with eachother. Ultimately even this is false. For you, in your universe...the idea of other gods having dreams is fake and your dream is literally the only thing there. That's at least the spiritual dogma I've adopted. But that's what Leo says and I've verified stuff he said that's impossible before so

Solipsism 101#. Been there done that .  Ain't fucking around with Solipsism ever again in my life . Nobody here interacting with others really buys Solipsism.  Even Leo himself doesn't buy Solipsism because why he still rambling to the camera (basically to himself ) for 3 hours about god ?

17 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Review his episode about perception being the only thing that exists. I think it's called "what if perception is all that exists" or something. What this means is, we are all basically just agreeing on what reality is. Making it up in a sense. Like why associate the word blue with the sky. Why make that noise with your vocal chords to describe the sky..."blue"? Made up homes. Fabricated. We just all agree on it and our perceptions fall in line. Who knows, maybe what I've grown up to consistently call blue is nowhere near what you experience when you look at the sky...what you've grown up calling "blue". Nothing exists. 

It's called "what if reality is nothing but perspective ?".

There is no way to prove that the red  🛑i  see is the same red you see because I can only have access to my own visual field not yours .if I was to see the world through your eyes ..I would be you and stop being me which will then turn the problem to other side .

Edited 23 hours ago by Someone here

[Someone here]

17 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Someone hereGod is a flat 2d screen that acts like it can go into, and be in 3d. There is something as objective reality but its not solid, its like pixels on your monitor screen. If you looked at your windows homescreen and said there is large grassy hill there I am going to run to it and thats objective reality and we can all see it, is what you are describing. I am saying the display can take change from the display of a green grassy hill to insects shaking their butts really fast and there is no difference its the same thing, God. Objective reality is infinite, look at the stars, it can take any form and is infinite just by using our eyes. But when we introduce metaphysics, it gets a million times crazier infinity, and now literally anything can be creating you, you only find out when you see what it is, and it can take infinite forms. Your God and my God can look different but both are just pixels on the physical and metaphysical screens of God (nothing).

Imagine you saw the grassy hill desktop wallpaper on your monitor. You say I can climb that hill! You walk towards it but you cant walk you are on a pc. So you get a bunch of images that look like you are getting closer and switch your desktop wallpaper  over and over to make it look like you are walking closer. You get to the top of the hill and are now looking off of it but you didn't move anywhere you just kept changing your desktop wallpaper to make it look like you were climbing a hill.

That is what is happening irl but in a simulation that automatically does it for you.

You are essentially asking what is possible to happen on this desktop background and why do people see it differently if God is real. Well we might have roughly the same collection of images but we see them differently, because there is more than just what we see we exist as something that we cant see.

Tom and jerry eating moon cheese is real and is objective reality.

Well well well you are denying space and 3d dimension  and using analogy of a screen ..it seems like you sill haven't figured out that the world is not a computer screen?  In a one-dimensional cosmos..things could not pass each other without also merging (since the universe would be described by a line/curve without width). In our cosmos.. things can pass each other without merging 

 I know What we experience is an illusion. We know that our brains piece together memories and perceptions to create a kind of movie show for us..and that movie is just a “barely good enough” model of reality. Hence we have optical illusions but you are taking too far and I'm not wiling to go to these depths to not lose my goddam sanity .

Edited 23 hours ago by Someone here

[Someone here]

17 hours ago, gambler said:

Well maybe there is something motivating people’s differing interpretations on things. So take into account people’s motivation or lack of one. Those who are motivated to throw all religion to the dustbin of history will have their own perspective shaped by this. Those that see the value in the evolution of Christianity, might not see the big deal in their own perspective. There may be other motivating factors too. 

What sources these differences in motivation?  Why some people go to church and some people go to the pub ?