Sri Ramana Maharshi

[Atb210201]

This is short and so powerful.

Edited Saturday at 01:10 PM by Atb210201

[Breakingthewall]

Please, let me being a smartass and criticize Ramana, just as an exercise. 

According his logic, if they put me inside a 1 cubic meter iron box in the sun at 45 degrees full of mosquitoes and rats for a month, I know it is temporary, so I would not suffer. 

He always says: ask yourself what you are. You are not the body, because it's temporary. You are not the mind. Neti neti. So what's left? Let's see. Knowing that you are not the body is an idea of the mind. Knowing that you are not the mind is also an idea. The understanding that you are the infinite void is also a deduction created by the mind. You are not the void. This is not true. You are something else very different. Let's imagine the possibility that Ramana was wrong. Don't you feel a feeling of , let's say, incompleteness, when you listen Ramana?

 

[Atb210201]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Please, let me being a smartass and criticize Ramana, just as an exercise. 

According his logic, if they put me inside a 1 cubic meter iron box in the sun at 45 degrees full of mosquitoes and rats for a month, I know it is temporary, so I would not suffer. 

He always says: ask yourself what you are. You are not the body, because it's temporary. You are not the mind. Neti neti. So what's left? Let's see. Knowing that you are not the body is an idea of the mind. Knowing that you are not the mind is also an idea. The understanding that you are the infinite void is also a deduction created by the mind. You are not the void. This is not true. You are something else very different. Let's imagine the possibility that Ramana was wrong. Don't you feel a feeling of , let's say, incompleteness, when you listen Ramana?

 

No please don't criticise everything.

Don't create imaginary scenarios that hasn't happened.

Just do as he says when you're suffering or even now when you're not suffering just grasp it, it's so simple and yet so profound.

Go to your own Source inside as you are right now.

That's it.

No need to complicate things.

Edited Saturday at 01:58 PM by Atb210201

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

No please don't criticise everything.

So it's better to accept what they tell us without critical thinking? That's a mistake imo. Spirituality is full of traps

 

Edited Saturday at 02:10 PM by Breakingthewall

[Atb210201]

28 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

So it's better to accept what they tell us without critical thinking? That's a mistake imo. Spirituality is full of traps

 

I've done more than enough critical thinking than I should have.

In the end it can become it's own trap if done all the time and then you have to accept what feels like Truth in your own heart and do not doubt it so much anymore.

Edited Saturday at 02:33 PM by Atb210201

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall are these scenarios a reality or imagined ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

Freedom and liberation also means freedom to suffer. There's no freedom and liberation for what's already free and liberated. Telling the limited to go within to find freedom and liberation is telling freedom and liberation to go within to find itself. What's suffering is already freedom and liberation appearing as suffering or else it wouldn't be freedom and liberation. 

Eternal freedom and peace will not always exist anywhere in the limited form. Eternal freedom, peace and liberation is already the case, so anything that stems from that, arises from that, including suffering is also freedom appearing as such. 

It's like telling the ice to go within and find the water. The water, being freedom and liberation in this analogy, is already the case and the ice stems from that. How can the ice find the water from where it came. It won't be ice anymore now will it. Once it melts, there is no more ice to say, hey there water. It was all one. So, telling the ice to go within to find the peace of the water is futile because they'll be no more ice there to find anything. 

I give these analogies so you guys can think about what you're learning for yourselves and to pick them apart. Critically think for yourselves about these kinds of teachings. They only cater to the ice (me), that resonates because it sounds good to the egoic mind....but is it true or just a temporary fix to feel good.

Edited Sunday at 12:19 AM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

mind....but is it true or just a temporary fix to feel good.

All Asian mysticism has a strong component of detachment, which seems to make sense because attachment seems to keep you focused on your current circumstances and prevents you from opening your mind to the whole.

That is, if you want complete openness, good and bad must be the same for you. But as you said, attachment and detachment, suffering or the absence of it, would also have to be the same. I believe that I can have strong attachment and desire and at the same time be able to mentally place ourself in a position of absolute equanimity. Perhaps a little bit of drugs would be helpful, and understanding how your mind works.

What's interesting to me is the openness to the whole at certain moments, not living like a monk. That seems extremely boring to me. I could kill myself and I'd be done with all that suffering sooner. The real point is having everything, the human world and true mysticism.

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall Its an idea of the mind but the minds ideas effect conciousness. If I know I am a lottery winner(a mind thing) something happens thats not thought.

Edited Sunday at 02:11 PM by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Breakingthewall Its an idea of the mind but the minds ideas effect conciousness. If I know I am a lottery winner something happens thats not thought.

Real mysticism is not an idea, is a fact. Its something that happens. I don't doubt that Ramana Maharaj was a true mystic, but when I listen to him, he seems limited, like Nisgardata Maharaj and some other Indians, but not all. They seem to have freed themselves from the shackles of humanity, but they haven't achieved true openness. 

True Indian mysticism, like the Bahavad Gita, is much more than that of I am not the body, nor the mind, etc. That is only the previous step, then you have to delve into what really is, into the movement of the cosmos and the absolute creative power, and I don't see any of that in him

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall Well if you identify with the void thats the most open space there is.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Breakingthewall Well if you identify with the void thats the most open space there is.

All this about identification remains in the conceptual realm of the mind. Reality is simply real, not a matter of identification. The difference between a closed state and an open one is about energy barriers, not identification. The conceptual mind is used to structure perception, but has no relevance, is secondary character. 

That's why all this neti neti stuff seems a bit superficial. It's easy put the mind at zero, but the barriers still persist. You can perceive yourself as the living unlimited reality without a doubt, and say, "Oh, I'm enlightened." But there are still barriers.

Edited Sunday at 02:52 PM by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

They seem to have freed themselves from the shackles of humanity,

That's it. There's a kind of natural wisdom that can come from that. When we insist on being human and of this world we enslave ourselves and then we do all these things to free us from our own enslavement. That's all that's happening here. The human identity will fight to stay alive even though it causes mental pain and suffering because it would rather suffer than to die.

Edited Sunday at 02:52 PM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's it. There's a kind of natural wisdom that can come from that. When we insist on being human and of this world we enslave ourselves and then we do all these things to free us from our own enslavement. That's all that's happening here. The human identity will fight to stay alive even though it causes mental pain and suffering because it would rather suffer than to die.

I think that you can be chained to the human, very involved in your life, and same time getting total mystic openess at will, it's a matter of being cunning, how to temporarily deactivate certain springs of the mind. You can place yourself in a position where life and death are indifferent to you at will, and then change to one where they matter to you.

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall I am saying its conceptual but I am also saying your conceptualizations do something. The same way if you conceptualize you won the lottery something else happens.

Edited Sunday at 02:57 PM by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Breakingthewall I am saying its conceptual but I am also saying your conceptualizations do something.

Yes could be, some conceptualizations are keys to dissolve another solid conceptualizations

Edited Sunday at 02:58 PM by Breakingthewall

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall So they are saying if you conceptualize that you are nothing something else will happen, bigger than nothing.

Edited Sunday at 02:59 PM by Hojo

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that you can be chained to the human, very involved in your life, and same time getting total mystic openess at will, it's a matter of being cunning, how to temporarily deactivate certain springs of the mind. You can place yourself in a position where life and death are indifferent to you at will, and then change to one where they matter to you.

I'm not saying to deny the human aspects but understand it's just a concept. It's just a word with a meaning we've given it. Of course I say I'm human, but what does that even mean. I can't fly like a bird but does a bird even know it's a bird. No, we're the only ones that know and our knowledge is a part of our demise. I'm not saying anything is wrong, because it's not in that sense, but mentally we suffer the thoughts that we believe in.

Edited Sunday at 03:06 PM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Breakingthewall So they are saying if you conceptualize that you are nothing something else will happen, bigger than nothing.

Maybe but I can be without any conceptualization and there are still barriers. The logical mind is not the only barrier, it's only the first one and more obvious, but then are many others. The structure of a human is quite complex, but it's an interesting game to get deep in it

[Breakingthewall]

27 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

not saying to deny the human aspects but understand it's just a concept

40 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

Its not just a concept, its something real, genetically encoded over billions of years of evolution. The conceptual issue is only the tip of the iceberg. The energetic structures that build the psyche are absolutely real.