Why the hate against Christianity?

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is Christianity does not give people the tools to realize God. So they are left living a fantasy.

The guys I listed before all have the tools to reach union with God and are Christian organisations. The Leadbeater book explains the science of the rituals done in church. Those too are tools to transform conciousness. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Salvijus

[puporing]

The problem is even if Christ showed up at a random church nobody's gonna recognize him at this day and age. So that's why you have these other teachers or intermediaries who don't fully understand either.

Even your most spiritually advanced people in this world would not recognize him. 

That's just how things are right now.

You get the teacher(s) you have because that's what people are "ready for".

Edited 15 hours ago by puporing

[Grateful Dead]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Really??

You seemed like a good example. But I shouldn't have made it personal, I let my ego act out there for a moment. I removed it from my post.

Edited 13 hours ago by Grateful Dead

[Nemra]

It's interesting that people who supposedly used Christianity for actual awakening (which I extremely doubt can work, as they aren't offering any actual tools to have direct experience) as a path define it as if most Christians aren't Christians at all.

You want real Christianity? Look at how people are taught (brainwashed) from a young age and not the people who convert later in life.

Edited 12 hours ago by Nemra

[Girzo]

@Nemra In my country there are actually quite a few good contemplative Christian monasteries you can go ona a retreat to. Although, they require payment upfront, Buddhist retreats, like Goenka's Vipassana are often gift-economy based, as in pay now what you can, support us long-term or help with cleaning and cooking on the next retreats. Christians are more conventional and offer a clear-cut service.

Edited 11 hours ago by Girzo

[Grateful Dead]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

You want real Christianity? Look at how people are taught (brainwashed) from a young age and not the people who convert later in life.

Why do you think brainwashing children is a better representation of Christianity than people who discovered it on their own later in life? Seems ridiculous to be honest..

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

It's interesting that people who supposedly used Christianity for actual awakening (which I extremely doubt can work, as they aren't offering any actual tools to have direct experience) as a path define it as if most Christians aren't Christians at all.

Much has already been said in this thread. If you want to gain deeper insight, look into the book "A Course in Miracles", which is an advanced Christian teaching. It's available for free online and contains many tools for gaining direct experience.

[Nemra]

@Grateful Dead, are most Christians into "A Course in Miracles"? No.

Do you really think that most Christians are excited to understand reality even if that could make them drop Christianity? Of course not.

21 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

Why do you think brainwashing children is a better representation of Christianity than people who discovered it on their own later in life?

Because that's the norm.

Think about how Christianity would have been if there wasn't a Christian indoctrination.

Why are Christians so afraid of their children being educated about non-Christian stuff?

Why do you think Christianity is appealing to a lot of people?

Edited 10 hours ago by Nemra

[Nemra]

@Girzo, that's interesting. I guess their tool is contemplation.

 

[Grateful Dead]

14 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Grateful Dead, are most Christians into "A Course in Miracles"? No.

Do you really think that most Christians are excited to understand reality even if that could drop Christianity? Of course not.

I don't quite understand your argument. So, is Christianity bad just because it's popular with many people, but most have no interest in the truth and are unable to truly understand and live its teachings?

15 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Why do you think Christianity is appealing to a lot of people?

I think Christianity has great appeal for many because it answers deep existential questions and offers a strong spiritual, moral, and communal dimension. There's a lot more to it, but that's it for the majority, I guess.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The guys I listed before all have the tools to reach union with God and are Christian organisations. The Leadbeater book explains the science of the rituals done in church. Those too are tools to transform conciousness. 

The tools are too weak and the epistemic foundation is missing.

3 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

You seemed like a good example. But I shouldn't have made it personal, I let my ego act out there for a moment. I removed it from my post.

Appreciated. Thanks.

[Nemra]

10 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

So, is Christianity bad just because it's popular with many people, but most have no interest in the truth and are unable to truly understand and live its teachings?

Because it's about survival clothed in spiritual language, which, by the way, is used to justify the way they survive.

10 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

moral, and communal dimension.

Those are the ones that are the most appealing, which are problematic.

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is Christianity does not give people the tools to realize God. So they are left living a fantasy.

Yes. Yoga meditation psychedelics ... may not be touched or discussed in Christian gatherings. Stick with the tried and tested safe stuff like the gifts of the Spirit.

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, Grateful Dead said:

I think Christianity has great appeal for many because it answers deep existential questions and offers a strong spiritual, moral, and communal dimension. There's a lot more to it, but that's it for the majority, I guess.

It doesn’t provide any satisfying answers based on reason. Rather, it prescribes beliefs that require faith. This is especially damaging to children's critical thinking abilities. As for adults, they are pulled in because their vulnerabilities are exploited. Even if the original teaching was about enlightenment, chances are Christianity does more damage than it does to enlighten.

 

 

[Thought Art]

Christ in an interesting metaphor for the infinite embodied in man, the love and compassion Leo wrote about in his blog recently just saying 

[Grateful Dead]

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

Because it's about survival clothed in spiritual language, which, by the way, is used to justify the way they survive.

That's not true at all. It's about the exact opposite: forgetting the world (survival) and finding the Kingdom of God within ourselves.

Just think of the story of Jesus. The main character literally gave his life for God and allowed himself to be crucified. And afterward, many martyrs died for their faith.

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

Those are the ones that are the most appealing, which are problematic.

However, this only applies to the masses who, as already mentioned, are not really interested in true spirituality.

[Nemra]

2 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

That's not true at all. It's about the exact opposite: forgetting the world (survival) and finding the Kingdom of God within ourselves.

Whether Jesus is correct or not, it doesn't matter. It's about how the people, Christians, act and believe.

14 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

Just think of the story of Jesus. The main character literally gave his life for God and allowed himself to be crucified. And afterward, many martyrs died for their faith.

That's a story.

Also, there are a lot of questions to be asked in that text.

4 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

However, this only applies to the masses who, as already mentioned, are not really interested in true spirituality.

They are the majority.

Still, I would even say that the spiritual approach is rather bad. The fact that Christian texts can be interpreted in different ways for different reasons is enough to stay away from it if you're going to use it for awakening, which is supposed to be beyond our interpretation.

How are you going to go beyond belief with belief if it only reaffirms your beliefs?

[zurew]

Everyone can project whatever meaning they want on the Bible depending on what beliefs and biases they have.

In this case, one can project nonduality on it and pretend that the authors of the Bible were writing about nonduality and God realization. I don't know why the exact same thing couldn't be said about any other random text and why the Bible should be treated special. If I try hard enough, I can redefine enough things so that I can say that the founding fathers were actually talking about nonduality and they were trying to teach about God realization.

To me, this move seems like a desperate attempt to try to maintain a Christian identity while also trying to be "spiritual" at the same time.

Edited 5 hours ago by zurew

[gettoefl]

The two faiths per AI:

Quote

Corrupt Faith (False Certainty & Self-Deception):
"I know for a fact that God exists, that my religion is the absolute truth, and that those who disagree are simply wrong."

Honest Faith (Trust Without Certainty):
"I don’t know for sure if God exists, but I choose to trust in something greater because it gives meaning to my life."

You said:

Which of these two fits Christian dogma?

AI said:

Christian dogma, as traditionally taught, aligns more closely with corrupt faith (false certainty & self-deception) because it presents core beliefs as absolute truths rather than uncertainties. Statements like “God exists,” “Jesus is the Son of God,” and “Salvation comes only through Christ” are not framed as personal trust in the unknown but as objective, unquestionable realities. Doubt is often discouraged, and believers are expected to accept doctrine as fact rather than as a personal leap of faith in the face of uncertainty.

However, some more contemplative or mystical strands of Christianity—such as Christian existentialism (Kierkegaard), apophatic theology (the "negative way"), or faith traditions that emphasize mystery—lean toward honest faith (trust without certainty). These perspectives acknowledge the limits of human understanding and embrace faith as a choice to trust in God without requiring absolute knowledge. A statement like “I believe in God, but His nature is ultimately beyond my comprehension” fits this view.

So, mainstream Christian dogma fits corrupt faith, but some mystical and philosophical Christian perspectives lean toward honest faith.

 

[puporing]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

It's about how the people, Christians, act and believe.

 

4 hours ago, Nemra said:

survival clothed in spiritual language

That's really way more true of Leo's followers than anyone interested in what I'm saying lol. You are utterly blind about this. 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Christian texts can be interpreted in different ways

There are not many ways you can interpret ACIM, which I understand is something that came much later, but is a much more direct teachings from Jesus and I would say much more complete due to his post life as a disembodied being "in heaven".

Edited 5 hours ago by puporing

[puporing]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

How are you going to go beyond belief with belief if it only reaffirms your beliefs?

You can verify everything yourself, through the guided teachings. Of course words are symbols and pointers are only needed to get somebody there, once you reached all that you can receive it is not needed anymore.

Edited 4 hours ago by puporing