Why the hate against Christianity?

[UnbornTao]

There's a theory that Jesus might have traveled to the east and studied Buddhism there. Are you sure your Lord and Savior isn't actually Gautama? 

"When you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

[Elliott]

40 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

There's a theory that Jesus might have traveled to the east and studied Buddhism there. Are you sure your Lord and Savior isn't actually Gautama? 

"When you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Afghanistan had huge buddhist effigies until 2001, wasn't too far.

[Santiago Ram]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

When you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Of course that saying goes for Christ as well.

But Christianity is far superior to Buddhism because Christianity is about God-realization while Buddhism is about realizing No-self.

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Santiago Ram said:

Of course that saying goes for Christ as well.

But Christianity is far superior to Buddhism because Christianity is about God-realization while Buddhism is about realizing No-self.

Really, do you think anyone has god realized through christianity? Who's the most spiritual Christian in history aside from Jesus, not that I consider Jesus a christian.

Edited 13 hours ago by Elliott

[Santiago Ram]

@Elliott I have had a God-realization experience through Christianity in the NA clinic.

Edited 13 hours ago by Santiago Ram

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Santiago Ram said:

@Elliott I have had a God-realization experience through Christianity in the NA clinic.

Why do you say it was through Christianity?

[Santiago Ram]

Well, I followed and taught the Gospels, although in a non-conventional way.

[Elliott]

11 minutes ago, Santiago Ram said:

Well, I followed and taught the Gospels, although in a non-conventional way.

Do you think that if someone made up a story about a God, different than the Bible, and your culture taught it, like a cult, I assume you think some cult leaders just make up stuff, do you think you could have realized this made up god the same way?

[Santiago Ram]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Do you think that if someone made up a story about a God, different than the Bible, and your culture taught it, like a cult, I assume you think some cult leaders just make up stuff, do you think you could have realized this made up god the same way?

No, you're making a lot of assumptions.

1. I didn't get indoctrinated by my culture. In fact, I didn't grow up in a Christian household, despite being in Mexico, and since I was 15 I watched Leo's videos.
2. I converted into Christianity in the clinic which was non-religious, I was the only guy with a Bible (an intern gave it to me) there and I got a lot of shit for it.
3. God-realization is not that easy. It is highly unlikely that any story can lead to God realization.
4. I am not the only one, the best example of a saint who achieved God-realization is Meister Eckhart

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Santiago Ram

[Santiago Ram]

I'm not claiming Christianity to be the best or only path

I have also realized God by contemplating Solipsism

[Elliott]

37 minutes ago, Santiago Ram said:

No, you're making a lot of assumptions.

1. I didn't get indoctrinated by my culture. In fact, I didn't grow up in a Christian household, despite being in Mexico, and since I was 15 I watched Leo's videos.
2. I converted into Christianity in the clinic which was non-religious, I was the only guy with a Bible (an intern gave it to me) there and I got a lot of shit for it.
3. God-realization is not that easy. It is highly unlikely that any story can lead to God realization.
4. I am not the only one, the best example of a saint who achieved God-realization is Meister Eckhart

 

It was a genuine question.

I like the god of the bible, i enjoy the Christian experience.

BUT, what in the Christian story is requisite for realizing god?

[Santiago Ram]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

It was a genuine question.

I like the god of the bible, i enjoy the Christian experience.

BUT, what in the Christian story is requisite for realizing god?

Focusing on the Gospels and seeing it as a metaphor. Don't go thinking Heaven or Hell is a physical place

[yetineti]

On 3/16/2025 at 5:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

When I say not-knowing, I mean the Ralston sense. Which is the proper sense. I don't mean false knowing or fantasy.

For example, I clearly know that I don't know the historical Jesus. I don't even know if he existed. I don't know if he was maybe Satan incarnate sent to ensnare mankind's minds.

That's how deep that not-knowing goes. And my claim is that if you are honest with yourself, you have this exact same level of not-knowing underneath all the noise and bluster.

Christians refuse to acknowledge this simple level of not-knowing because it would destroy their whole worldview. Which is why they need faith.

@Leo Gura

I get your point—Ralston’s ‘not knowing’ is deliberate, and Christians don’t practice that. I wasn’t redefining it, just pointing out that Christians still don’t actually know; they just cover it with faith. So they’re in a different kind of not knowing, whether they admit it or not.

I could’ve said:

Faith = I do not know.

Why I didn’t, I don’t know. I see the conflation, though.

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Santiago Ram said:

But Christianity is far superior to Buddhism because Christianity is about God-realization while Buddhism is about realizing No-self.

The problem is Christianity does not give people the tools to realize God. So they are left living a fantasy.

[puporing]

The tools are all there, if one is looking for it. The problem isn't that tools aren't there, but people are not ready to use them, including the "preachers" themselves.

You can't get people to what they are just not ready for spiritually speaking. It doesn't work. There's a step by step process to it.

If Jesus could've cloned himself with "his followers" of the time, I'm sure he would have, but he couldn't do it in the first incarnation, and I'm not so sure if I can.

Edited 10 hours ago by puporing

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, yetineti said:

@Leo Gura

I get your point—Ralston’s ‘not knowing’ is deliberate, and Christians don’t practice that. I wasn’t redefining it, just pointing out that Christians still don’t actually know; they just cover it with faith. So they’re in a different kind of not knowing, whether they admit it or not.

I could’ve said:

Faith = I do not know.

Why I didn’t, I don’t know. I see the conflation, though.

Faith is acting like you know when in fact you don't, but you don't like that so you want something to stand on.

The emptiness of not-knowing is too unsettling for Christians. They hate emptiness. They want to FEEL Christian. The feeling is their fuel. High on Christian vibes.

Edited 10 hours ago by Leo Gura

[aurum]

49 minutes ago, puporing said:

The tools are all there, if one is looking for it.

What are the tools?

I was raised Christian and couldn't even tell you what they are.

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

people like Leo, who stir up hatred against Christianity

Really??

[puporing]

21 minutes ago, aurum said:

What are the tools?

I was raised Christian and couldn't even tell you what they are.

I have been speaking about it on this forum as well as in this thread. 

Problem is your mind is too closed right now to even consider the path I took. I'm not sure if you are asking in earnest or not.

Also I am not sure what you mean by "Christian", I would say I was a Christ follower through a channeled set of teachings of his, no different than you following Leo.

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

not-knowing is too unsettling

Ralston is not very awake to me. So while there are some decent tools there at first about "not knowing", that was not the end point for me to reaching God. 

Even your top followers repeatedly point to your "God realization" video. That is also not about not knowing. That was a transmission.

Edited 9 hours ago by puporing

[Salvijus]

Is Christianity basically working on Enlightenment, Absolute Truth, Tao, Supreme, State, etc? Basically what all the Other Eastern paths are teaching/working on?

 

"Yes. If you look at Anapanasati as practiced in some parts of Buddhism, the point of the practice is to strengthen/realize Awareness itself, as well as what lies at the bottom of the breath(that's a little hint for you by the way since I know you're also working on this). That Awareness is the key to unlock the rest of the doors. When The Ego is detached from, you remain as Awareness, and then can merge with the Source of Awareness which is what everyone is working on, the Source being the same as what everyone is calling it by different names."

 

How does the Christian access Awareness and Detachment from Ego?

 

"There are a number of ways, but I will cover two of the most important. The first is the ritual of Baptism, which simply activates Grace. Once Grace comes over you, it is a direct experience and a living presence that indwells you from the top of your head and instantly gives you The Timeless Now, Transcendence, Detachment, Destroys the Ego, activated divine Love, and all that's left is you as Awareness devoid of everything else. Then just surrender and let go and you as Awareness will merge with the Source. There is then no more you to be found anywhere, but are also United with everything and everywhere at the same time.

 

As far as the first part above goes, there may still remain some fragments/pieces of ego left over that continue to stir up. With that, we do the Jesus Prayer focused on the Heart area where the access to the Source is. By doing the Jesus Prayer on this specific area, several things are accomplished. The ego is not only busy with the prayer, but also awareness learns pure concentration while ignoring all other subconscious arisings. Eventually, Awareness realizes the Source of thought and enters into it. The place is a few inches to right of the Heart. With Awareness resting at the Source of thought, eventually the whole Ego/Subconscious mechanism is pulled at the root and only Spontaneous Union and Grace remain."

 

Do many Monks reach these states that you speak of?

 

"Of course not. As with all institutions, there are members at various levels of growth and realization. There are also various ego games, traps, arguments, politics, and some who never reach perfection. However, with many elders deep in various levels of the perfected state, they tend to oversee selflessly the rest of the flock, and many times their own infused energies of higher states are enough to get the beginners started on their own path."

 

So there is such a thing as Infusing others with various activations that help them along?

 

"Yes of course. When you are in close proximity with an Elder who is far on the stage of perfection, their own Awareness is so expanded, it literally has an effect on your own. That's what Halo's are in all the Spiritual paintings, not just in Christianity but also in Hindu-Vedic depictions and also those of Buddha himself. The Halo is just the inner Awareness that is you, prior to ego and body. It eventually expands beyond the head and many times you can see it on the elders."

 

Are all those other Paths legit as well? Why did you choose Christianity instead of other paths?

 

"There are many Universal similarities in all the paths. Detachment, Awareness, the Source, Discipline, Wisdom, Knowledge, and an Absolute Truth that can be experienced which is the prior underlying reality of all of reality.

 

I tried various paths as a young man and college student and ended up staying with Christianity because the direct experiences and Grace came really fast for me. It took about a year of seriously getting into it that I started to experience ego death, the Now, Transcending all things (body, ideas, thoughts, self). Everything happened really fast through Grace. Some of the other paths I tried, I was getting experiences but they were at a snails pace. All that to say, I am not trying to discredit any of the other paths."

 

Some people say Christianity is just a go-to-Church feel good about yourself singy songy wishy washy type of Religion where the majority of followers don't get any huge internal breakthrough's.

 

"That happens with many paths. They eventually get watered down and become a facade of their former selves. Aren't various forms of hot-room Yoga's the hottest(pun intended) pop-forms of exercise in America these days? That's just one example.

 

The actual Yoga (meaning Union, or to Unite with the Source) is a very advanced system of remaining Aware of the Body and Mind in the midst of various poses, all leading back to strengthening Awareness. One of the benefits of Yoga is that you may come across physical attributes that are tied to the workings of the Ego such as various physical knots or childhood traumas that can be released during certain stretches. Just as well, the channel that the Ego uses to take it's place as a veil over Awareness can also be opened during Yoga practice.

 

So in essence, many of the Christian Monasteries, or even lay hermits, are genuinely working on inner planes through various degrees, techniques, practices, and Grace...all of which eventually lead to Tao, Source, God, Supreme, Absolute whatever you want to name the Nameless direct experience.

 

Christianity has also become a watered down fast food western version of preaching, singing, and one hour a week of service. To really have breakthroughs, requires lengthy time spent in practice, detachment, prayer, meditation, etc. When Jesus went into the Desert for 40 days, that is something every Christian should do. 40 days in any retreat or wilderness will bring out the worst of the ego, the perfect opportunity to see that it isn't you and detach from it as Awareness."

 

Did Christ exist and are his teachings real?

 

"When Buddha said not to take his word for it and to see if what he says is true through direct experience, the same thing applies to the teachings of Christ. We put his teachings into practice and eventually start experiencing fascinating states directly for ourselves. You yourself are the experiment, the laboratory for testing to see what happens. When you start to experience the same things Christ taught, that tends to solidify his existence. Also, many Monks adore the Gospel of Thomas. If you read that Gospel, many of the sayings there are very Nondual sounding and tends to link back to everything else in the East. He speaks about alot about Oneness that is experiential"

 

What about faith? I had a fellow argue with me that Christians have to use Faith and that since Faith is of the Ego, it's dealing with illusions of the mind

 

"You only use faith for a little while, say agreeing to trust in, or have faith that this path may possibly take me where I want to go. Once you do experience the things you were looking for within and without, then there's no need for Faith because at that point there's no other choice then to directly live from direct experience of the Absolute.

 

What about Christ saying he's the only way?

 

If you look at what his Way is, it's a combination of ego death, enlightenment, Grace, Love, empathy, compassion, Tao, Absolute, Supreme, etc. So anyone who is working towards that goal is already following his path.

 

One of the factors of Christianity that is interesting that is not found that much in many other paths is that of Ego-Death through Grace by the Holy Spirit entering the top of the head and opening all the channels and illuminating Awareness, while detaching all else. I believe I've come across something similar in my studies of Kashmir Shaivism. Also some people claim that Kundalini is the Holy Spirit, however I'm not to sure about that as Kundalini tends to be from the perenium and up the spine to the crown, whereas the Holy Spirit enters the head and goes down tot he feet. I would have to brush up on my studies however by researching the word Grace and it's existence in all the other paths

 

On many occasions here during various services, you can feel the Spirit moving around the grounds and rooms of the Monastery. It enters you when you least expect it and slays or burns off any remaining ego fragments and fills you with divine transcendent Love & Bliss as a replacement. "

 

So the Christian Path is a legit path towards Enlightenment?

 

"Why yes of course. I understand you intend to share this discussion with a few brothers and sisters that are Buddhists and of various other paths. If they are already deep in their practice and making headway, then good for them, as it is exactly what Christ was all about.

 

The one thing I feel is necessary to say is that Eastern Christian practice as done in the Eastern Orthodox monasteries is a complete system from beginning to end. I say that, because I found early on that in many other paths, you can merge with the Source, however there still remain ego fragments and the whole of the subconscious stirring up constantly and causing troubles for the rest of one's life. In our school, through the Jesus prayer, all of that is eventually snuffed out and there is a completion stage of perfection where even the body is transformed and filled with light flowing through all the opened channels.

 

So there's a start and there's and end and can all be done in this lifetime. Of course the rest of life remains as a practice of making available to others the energies and Union that is within you by going out to the world and sharing the Light"