Remaining deeply connected to pickup or porn,

[Jayson G]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's actually very important to recognize that people have hugely different needs for variety and new experience in general.

Most people are not creative nor innovative because their mind is satisfied with the same old things. Such people can work in a factory and be satified. These kind of minds tend to be conservative and closed.

If I had to work in a factory, I would rather just kill myself.

Some minds are built for lifelong monogamy and others aren't.

This is not commonly understood. You have to understand who you are.

Guys who are into pickup have super high sex drives. Freakishly high. Which is not me, btw. If you guys think I have a high sex drive you don't understand what high sex drive is. If I had their kind of sex drive I could not do my work.

It's challenging for someone with a low sex drive to understand someone with a high sex drive.

@Leo Gura I get what you're saying. I too would probably be absolutely miserable in a factory location. I am always diving deep into new experiences, projects, creative ideas that no one has done before, etc. 

Even I prefer polyamory over monogamy. 

I can see myself being polyamorous for maybe another 8 years. 

But there are some downsides to choose a life of polyamory. 

Imagine you're 70 years old, with no family. How long would you chase new partners? Would you have the energy to at that age? How much value can you provide to another partner at that age without having built up much with them? 

If you run into a health problem that would make it hard to care for yourself at that age, would you rather be in a nursing home or be with a family that loves you in your own home? 

Even I have no desire to settle right now, but if you think long-term enough, these things are very worth considering. 

In polyamory you are not investing in any relationship truly, there's limits on depth, etc. I think you are missing the point of many deep joys that a life of monogamy can bring. 

Maybe you are an exception that for you truth is the highest priority in life, and there is some untruth in monogamy perhaps. But the alternative is not a life most people would end up being happy with long-term. 

And on the other side of the coin, by the logic of getting fed up with one partner, you could just as easily be fed up of jumping from partner to partner over time. Or if you decide no partner, and to pursue just truth, you may find that 20 years later you are in a state of deep loneliness because there's something in your biology that wants another partner to share a life with. 

You can be essentially fed up with any path you choose then.

Edited Saturday at 12:07 AM by Jayson G

[Leo Gura]

I'm no fan of polyamory. I think it's mostly delusion.

I'm just saying there are serious challenges to monogamy. Not that you can't do it.

Edited Saturday at 12:13 AM by Leo Gura

[Jayson G]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm no fan of polyamory. I think it's mostly delusion.

I'm just saying there are serious challenges to monogamy. Not that you can't do it.

@Leo Gura That is true. 98% of married couples I know are passive, tired, etc. They are not in deeply happy, loving marriages. 

But these same people apply no mastery to life itself, nor anything they do. The default for 98% of people is passiveness, which is why they are fed up in marriages. 

There are definitely serious challenges to monogamy. But I also see serious challenges to a life of any other alternative as well. 

Also even just questioning the idea of being "fed up" at all. I know that feeling, and I experience that every now and then with every area of life. Life itself can get tiring, any path warrants involves experiences of being bored or tired or fed up with it. But I think that's its own problem that needs working on, structurally. That's also part of every path, as even described in the book mastery.

[Leo Gura]

Frankly, when I saw Ralston get divorced I realized that not even the most conscious guy in the world can make marriage work. That was hugely eye-opening for me.

You have no idea what tree you're barking up.

Edited Saturday at 12:31 AM by Leo Gura

[Jayson G]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Frankly, when I saw Ralston get divorced I realized that not even the most conscious guy in the world can make marriage work. That was hugely eye-opening for me.

You have no idea what tree you're barking up.

@Leo Gura I don't know much about Ralston but I mean lets test that assumption that high consciousness is the major factor in a successful marriage. 

How much does Ralston value family? Does he value consciousness more than family? What if he developed himself to such a high degree that made him unsuitable with his partner? Sadhguru is a conscious workaholic in a way, what if Peter Ralston was one too? Alan Watts was an alcoholic despite being conscious, so why does consciousness translate to a good worldly life? 

To even get to where Ralston got to consciousness wise I don't see it that realistic to have such a high value for family, marriage, and worldly sort of love. I mean the guy looks like a hardass to begin with, how in touch is he with adventure, romance, kindness, etc. that even make for a good marriage? 

I get it though. I know it will be a difficult tree to climb. Its on my mind a lot. But to climb the tree of not being married is just as hard of a tree to climb. I also know people who are not married. My uncle is a very depressed alcoholic. These people get lonelier over the years, depressed, too in their heads, many overly attached to work, a lack of meaning, and then in their later years they enter a nursing home and no family for love. It's just like what alternative do you want because they both are doing to be difficult roads. 

Edited Saturday at 12:57 AM by Jayson G

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Would having sex blindfolded solve half these issues of novelty and variety?

You can orgasm through meditation with another person. Master your ability to shift state. This is a deep connection. Deep connection to porn and pickup?

In my opinion, you cannot have a deep connection to porn or pickup (if we are defining pickup as using another's body to masturbate)

Half these responses read to me like users either 1) haven't experienced a deep connection with another person 2) have deep attachment based trauma they are totally unaware of and 3) haven't reached the age where you can comprehend just how deeply you need others

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Would having sex blindfolded solve half these issues of novelty and variety?

Why not just place a brown paper bag over their head while you're at it?

Problem solved!

Edited Saturday at 01:09 AM by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why not just place a brown paper bag over their head while you're at it?

It would alter the experience for both parties 

Depends on your aversion to experiencing negative shit

I don't think most are open enough to incorporate trash into their sexual experiences lol

[yetineti]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It would alter the experience for both parties 

Mission accomplished?! 😉

[gambler]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why not just place a brown paper bag over their head while you're at it?

Problem solved!

 

[Yimpa]

Finally hit 69 replies, LFG!

[yetineti]

Marriage needs a severing ability, like for work in the show ‘Severance,’ to separate aspects of each other’s lives. 

You could have a ‘new’ partner for any aspect of your relationship and never have to recall or manage or deal with the web that comes with it all haha.

Really begs the question:

Is enjoyment something that can exist entirely within an isolated segment of experience, independent of all other segments, or does it fundamentally arise from the interactions, contrasts, or relationships between multiple segments of experience?

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:08 AM by yetineti

[Staples]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Frankly, when I saw Ralston get divorced I realized that not even the most conscious guy in the world can make marriage work. That was hugely eye-opening for me.

You have no idea what tree you're barking up.

Ralston is quite an outlier in terms of personality and lifestyle though. A traditional marriage doesn't really work for a non-traditional person.

Marriage is a lot more functional for the average person.

Edited Saturday at 03:50 AM by Staples

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, yetineti said:

Marriage needs a severing ability, like for work in the show ‘Severance,’ to separate aspects of each other’s lives. 

You could have a ‘new’ partner for any aspect of your relationship and never have to recall or manage or deal with the web that comes with it all haha.

Really begs the question:

Is enjoyment something that can exist entirely within an isolated segment of experience, independent of all other segments, or does it fundamentally arise from the interactions, contrasts, or relationships between multiple segments of experience?

 

 

 

I can only imagine how much this would be used as an avenue for abuse.

You would never know your partner was verbally abusing the SHIT out of a severed part of you...

Eek

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Staples said:

Ralston is quite an outlier in terms of personality and lifestyle though. A traditional marriage doesn't really work for a non-traditional person.

He was married a long time and he remarried soon after.

So he's not as non-traditional as you may think.

[AION]

Marriage and dating has changed so much compared to back in the day. It is interesting to ponder what changed. The rock solid marriages I have seen that is working is when a guy has a career and the woman doesn't. Marriages fail faster if both have careers or if the woman has a career and the men doesn't.

Edited Saturday at 05:25 AM by AION

[Leo Gura]

@AION It's simple: marriages work when you got no other options.

[AION]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@AION It's simple: marriages work when you got no other options.

Power dynamics is important in relationships. Or you have to be good in maintaining frames which is taught in PUA which is very hard to do on the long term. Even Owen Cook said he fucked this up with his ex wife and that is why they divorced. I’m paraphrasing what he said. 
 

If I would ever settle down I wouldn’t do it with a career woman but with a sweet little town girl who maintained her innocence. It is true that the days of the average guy in dating is over but there are still glitches in the matrix that one can exploit like going with a town girl or being a passport bro.

 

But even passport bros are fucked if they play it wrong. I heard the same pattern come back: they get this sweet little girl and help her get a passport and get her a career and do all this sacrifices on her and at the end her mindset get infected and she just divorces him. 

Edited Saturday at 06:05 AM by AION

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, AION said:

Power dynamics is important in relationships. Or you have to be good in maintaining frames which is taught in PUA which is very hard to do on the long term. Even Owen Cook said he fucked this up with his ex wife and that is why they divorced. I’m paraphrasing what he said. 

Don't listen to Owen on this issue. He's such a gaslighter.

Of course his marriage failed. He was cheating on her constantly and publicly. The poor woman. It's his own absurd lifestyle that caused the divorce.

You don't need to control women who are in love with you. You just need to respect them and not be a flaming narcissist.

Can you imagine being married to Owen? Omg. I'm exhausted just imagining it.

Edited Saturday at 06:47 AM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, AION said:

But even passport bros are fucked if they play it wrong. I heard the same pattern come back: they get this sweet little girl and help her get a passport and get her a career and do all this sacrifices on her and at the end her mindset get infected and she just divorces him. 

Lol

Who would want to stay married to a passport bro? Passport bros use women. So women use passport bros. That is their self-created reality.

Edited Saturday at 06:20 AM by Leo Gura