Is normal meditation a trap?

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, meta_male said:

@gettoefl Are you saying rumination is about making money? Either way, your reply is all over the place, I don't get what this has to do with my question.

There are two life modes, survive and arrive. Arrive is god. I needn't do anything, making money is for actors on a stage. Ruminate is I have to survive. Of course one does both, at same time one has to know what one is and actualize it. Meditation is just the ticket.

Edited March 14 by gettoefl

[meta_male]

@gettoefl  You just doubled down with more cryptic sentences. What does any of this have to do with what I asked?

Would someone actually start going through the same mental and physical mechanics we associate with meditation, without an outside source teaching them how it works?

[gettoefl]

10 minutes ago, meta_male said:

@gettoefl  You just doubled down with more cryptic sentences. What does any of this have to do with what I asked?

Would someone actually start going through the same mental and physical mechanics we associate with meditation, without an outside source teaching them how it works?

Yes they would. Because conflict is only with others. No others, no problem. You would have no need to think except thoughts of God if you were so inclined. Mind is survival. Without others, you'd be king of the world, not a care in the world.

Edited March 14 by gettoefl

[meta_male]

@gettoefl  So you're saying that without external conflict we would settle into a meditative state on our own? I'm with you on that.

But my question is whether the actual practice of meditation and going through the motions is actually necessary to reach that state. I would argue that it's just a learned practice, ultimately unnecessary and therefore a distraction.

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, meta_male said:

@gettoefl  So you're saying that without external conflict we would settle into a meditative state on our own? I'm with you on that.

But my question is whether the actual practice of meditation and going through the motions is actually necessary to reach that state. I would argue that it's just a learned practice, ultimately unnecessary and therefore a distraction.

Practice makes perfect. You can get there without work if you are walking the walk in all other areas. You might not do so in this lifetime however.

[AJBrew]

@Grateful Dead I need some advice with an experience I've had with my meditation practice. Past two practices I get around the 40min mark and feel myself dissolve into my surroundings and snapped out of this when it happened. Should I have an anchor point like focusing on my breath when this happens or completely let go into it?

Edited March 14 by AJBrew

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, AJBrew said:

@Grateful Dead I need some advice with an experience I've had with my meditation practice. Past two practices I get around the 40min mark and feel myself dissolve into my surroundings and snapped out of this when it happened. Should I have an anchor point like focusing on my breath when this happens or completely let go into it?

What are you wishing to achieve with meditation?

[Basman]

I've been meditating on and off for years and I've accrued several hundreds of hours of meditation in total. Maybe about a thousand hours lifetime. To be honest, I struggle to see the benefit of it. I've grown more from taking concrete actions and gaining experiences.

Meditation is good at calming you down however and it gives you tingly sensations. I knew someone who liked to meditate probably to sooth their anxiety (I never asked but knew they where very anxious from body language, etc.).

Edited March 15 by Basman

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Basman said:

I've been meditating on and off for years and I've accrued several hundreds of hours of meditation in total. Maybe about a thousand hours lifetime. To be honest, I struggle to see the benefit of it. I've grown more from taking concrete actions and exposing myself to more experiences.

Meditation is good at calming you down however and it gives you tingly sensations. I knew someone who liked to meditate probably to sooth their anxiety (I never asked but knew they where very anxious from body language, etc.).

The largest effects are seen in people who are prone to mystical experiences, get a taste, get hooked, develop an obsession, meditate consistently for hours every day and make it their number one priority to merge with whatever is behind the curtain. That's my personal experience at least.

Edited March 15 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

I think it’s not really significant 

If you do it or not it doesn’t really matter.

[Basman]

26 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The largest effects are seen in people who are prone to mystical experiences, get a taste, get hooked, develop an obsession, meditate consistently for hours every day and make it their number one priority to merge with whatever is behind the curtain. That's my personal experience at least.

Yeah, I also suspect that people that have had god experiences are the one's who get most out of meditation. It's kind of overrated for normal people though in my opinion but I realize that mileage varies a lot between different personalities.

[Basman]

To answer the topic, I think mediation may be a trap if you are doing it slavishly and mechanically while not enjoying it or growing from it. You have to assess for yourself.

[AJBrew]

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What are you wishing to achieve with meditation?

I want to enhance and deepen my experience of the present moment and increase my capacity for love and compassion.

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ifHks5EYZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i288Lnb7NOk

[gettoefl]

19 hours ago, Basman said:

I've been meditating on and off for years and I've accrued several hundreds of hours of meditation in total. Maybe about a thousand hours lifetime. To be honest, I struggle to see the benefit of it. I've grown more from taking concrete actions and gaining experiences.

Meditation is good at calming you down however and it gives you tingly sensations. I knew someone who liked to meditate probably to sooth their anxiety (I never asked but knew they where very anxious from body language, etc.).

The meditative state needs to be maintained continuously. This is the goal of meditation and formal practice ceases.

Every person lives from the mind of lower self or the awareness of higher self.

[Breakingthewall]

Meditation is a trap because it's oriented toward focus and should be oriented toward opening. Focus closes, and what you want is to open. As a human, you are a limiter; you are a structure that eliminates everything except what you need to be human. Meditation is about temporarily removing that limiter and being the whole, which is not human, nor is it anything defined. It is formless because it is absolute potential. By concentrating on the breath, on mantras, on the now, on whatever, this will not happen. You must defocus, and this is contrary to every instinct, because it approaches death

[gettoefl]

10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Meditation is a trap because it's oriented toward focus and should be oriented toward opening. Focus closes, and what you want is to open. As a human, you are a limiter; you are a structure that eliminates everything except what you need to be human. Meditation is about temporarily removing that limiter and being the whole, which is not human, nor is it anything defined. It is formless because it is absolute potential. By concentrating on the breath, on mantras, on the now, on whatever, this will not happen. You must defocus, and this is contrary to every instinct, because it approaches death

The sitting practice is to get to stillness and silence. That's the best I can do out of effort and will. Then I am in a place of receptivity from which higher self can make itself known. I am now a fit vessel to be brought into alignment with the absolute reality. At first this is fleeting and later it normalises. I abide in full awareness of my true nature and body is no longer a prison but a platform for good. Bad may happen to body but it doesn't disturb me.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

The sitting practice is to get to stillness and silence. That's the best I can do out of effort and will. Then I am in a place of receptivity from which higher self can make itself known. I am now a fit vessel to be brought into alignment with the absolute reality. At first this is fleeting and later it normalises. I abide in full awareness of my true nature and body is no longer a prison but a platform for good. Bad may happen to body but it doesn't disturb me.

Yes I think sitting meditation is very important because it changes the mental pattern of constantly focusing on doing things and allows for the expansion of the mind. What I wanted to say is that meditation focused on breathing or a mantra doesn't work for me.

[Infinite Tsukuyomi]

@AJBrew Lots of time, I don't get a breakthrough in any work including meditation unless I give away what it is that I want. During your meditation try surrendering any images and sensations of love and compassion that come up. Notice them, let them have some space in your mind and body and before the thoughts go away, visualize yourself handing it over. I find that in the coming days, I am more authentic in daily life.

The more authentic I am, the more I can try to embody Truth and this leads me to accept life the way it is more. That's what I see as Love manifest.

You could give this a try and see if it works for you

[Grateful Dead]

On 14.3.2025 at 10:16 PM, AJBrew said:

@Grateful Dead I need some advice with an experience I've had with my meditation practice. Past two practices I get around the 40min mark and feel myself dissolve into my surroundings and snapped out of this when it happened. Should I have an anchor point like focusing on my breath when this happens or completely let go into it?

Sorry, I didn't see the question before. I've only used anchor points when there was to much fear to handle my experiences. I think it's important not to get so afraid that you don't continue with the practice. But if you're reasonably comfortable dissolving into your surroundings, just let it happen and go beyond it.