Trying to understand Elon Musks shift in personality or "radicalization".

[fanta]

Currently studying psychology. I have done a lot of therapy myself. I have been a bit flabbergasted by Elon and his behavior. My stance before his radicalization have always been that he has a been a good guy, with good values etc. But also a complicated guy with a dark history. It haven’t looked like he has been motivated by money. What he has done with Tesla and Spacex is incredible. He put every money into these companies at a bad period in the economy when there was a slim chance of success. For me this indicated that he cares more about the future of humanity than money and power; climate and existential threat more than money.

From my therapy work with my own trauma, there is one of model that is used in emotional focused therapy (EFT) to understand the psychological defenses at work when going through trauma in childhood. It is something called trauma related disassociation. How this works is that your personality gets fragmented into «parts» that are in conflict with each other. Almost every people have this to some degree, but the most extreme cases you get a non integrated personality with several personalities. This diagnosis is called dissociated identity disorder.

When people are going through trauma, they need to protect themselves from the difficult emotions they are experiencing. If one does not have competent parents who talk about or validate emotions, this can make things even worse. When it comes to trauma-related dissociation, there are primarily three parts (though there can be more depending on the situasjon) of thought patterns that is being integrated parts of the personality.

• First, there is a “well-functioning part”. This part is the "functional" part of the personality. The well-functioning part is often the most visible in daily life and maintains the functions necessary to navigate society. This part can have a good ability to function in work, school, and social life. Often, this is the part that people around the individual see, as it takes care of everyday tasks and relationships. The well-functioning part can also be the one that holds everything together and tries to maintain a sense of "normality."
   
• The "wounded child" is a part of the personality that carries the emotional and psychological pain from the traumatic experiences. This part may represent the child who experienced trauma and was unable to process or understand what happened at the time. When emotions are not processed and integrated, they remain as latent pockets emotional charged energy in the psyche that can be "triggered." The wounded child carries the pain, sorrow, fear, and helplessness from the trauma that is stored.
   
• The “control part” is often a part of the personality that takes on the responsibility of maintaining control over the difficult emotions of the wounded child. This part can function as a protection against emotional overwhelm when the feelings from the wounded child arise. The main goal of the control part is to prevent chaos, fear, and emotional suffering. It controls thoughts, actions, and feelings to prevent the traumatic experience from "breaking through" to the conscious experience.

A brief example to illustrate how this structured gets created in childhood; a child has experienced trauma in the form of bullying in the schoolyard. The child may sit and cry during recess, holding onto painful emotions. When recess is over, it will be embarrassing to walk into class crying. Due to the social pressure, the control part steps in to "shut down" the wounded child. The internal dialogue from the control part might be, "Shut up," "You're so ugly," "You're so stupid," "What's wrong with you?" etc directed at the wounded child. The goal is to suppress the emotions to such an extent that the child can go back into class and pretend everything is normal. The optimal experience for a child in this situation would be to talk to another person to get an understanding of what has happened and process the emotions and experience (hence getting it integrated).

The way I understand this model, and personality in general, is that personality is not a fixed defined thing that you are at any given moment, but rather an area that you move within. You are in a specific part of you personality at any given time based on the needs you have in the moment.

What I find interesting and have that I have noticed in myself (before I worked on integrating these parts) is that my control part was antisocial and without empathy. During periods of my life when I was struggling, facing a lot of adversity, and feeling depressed (and had little access to my emotions – this is really important because empathy is a physical feeling in the body), I was mainly placed in my control part. I externalized the bad feelings I had onto others by for example being mean and committing vandalism. A big part of why I exhibited this behavior, I believe, is because I didn’t want to be alone with my own pain by inflicting pain on others. This is something I feel can be seen in all people who are somewhat antisocial and lacking in empathy. There may be moments or situations that trigger feelings of empathy and warmth in these people towards others. I think it is genuine and that most people that are bad have something good within them. When it comes to people with strong antisocial personality disorder or psychopathy – I believe these individuals are forever stuck in the control part and have little to no access to their emotions.

So how does this relate to Elon Musk? As mentioned, I believe it's undeniable that this person is an extremely complicated individual. He has been pretty badly bullied throughout his childhood, and his father was violent. Additionally, he is autistic, which means he may have less empathy. I know this might sound extremely strange, but I believe that when Elon Musk started taking Ozempic, it could have had a significant impact on his psyche and demeanor. I personally took this medication a year ago and experienced an unbelievable amount of side effects. One thing Ozempic does is numb the feelings in the stomach and chest. You don’t just lose your sense of hunger, but also other emotions. And empathy is an emotion that resides in the body. I think it can numb this too. I noticed that when I was on Ozempic, my control part was much more prominent than usual.

I know Elon Musk doesn't function well as a person in the companies he has started and that he has people around him with high emotional intelligence to hold things together. The person he has appeared as in the public eye has probably never been his entire persona. But there has been a very large shift in how he behaves. He goes against everything he has ever said before. I think it's highly likely that there is a factor within him that has changed him. And I believe Ozempic could be one of several possible factor in how he has changed. For me, the radical shift in the way Elon Musk behaves suggests that he is primarily placed in the control part of his psyche. He is on an neverending externalization trip against the left.

 

I know this hypothesis is quite a stretch and probably very far-fetched. Maybe I'm hypermentalizing. But I still find these observations pretty interesting based on my own personal and clinical experience.

Edited yesterday at 01:25 PM by fanta

[Hojo]

Very intersting to contemplate for my life. Ty.

His reasons for changing sides is the woke mind virus. He claims it turned his son into a woman and it deeply disturbed him, maybe putting him in this control mode. I think his son went to school got ideas and came home and said he wasnt a man and then Elon went wtf is happening.

He thinks there is a narrative and therefore programming being pushed that is making people identity change,  a 'virus' among the minds of citizens. He sees this 'virus' is become more and more censoring on what you can and cant say and can and cant do. This is suffocation.

He is also doing copious amounts of psychedelics.

Edited yesterday at 01:51 PM by Hojo

[fanta]

2 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Very intersting to contemplate

His reasons for changing sides is the woke mind virus. He claims it turned his son into a woman and it deeply disturbed him, maybe putting him in this control mode. I think his son went to school got ideas and came home and said he wasnt a man and then Elon went wtf is happening.

Yup. I also think that is a big part of it. But at the same time, going with Trump, he goes against everything his core values with regards to climate change and "life mission" at Tesla.

He also lacks empathy towards his daughter. With the model described, and where you are at, can radically change how you percieve and project reality.

[Hojo]

@fanta I kinda think hes using AI do tell him what to do. Pure speculation.

It has been said that Trump will literally just beleive the person next to him. And Elon knows how to suck dick.

BY taking over twitter and cutting all employees and still having the website run shows Trump that Elon can cut stuff and still have it function.

Government is not like that unless its a anti human corporation.

Edited yesterday at 02:01 PM by Hojo

[fanta]

15 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@fanta I kinda think hes using AI do tell him what to do. Pure speculation.

It has been said that Trump will literally just beleive the person next to him. And Elon knows how to suck dick.

BY taking over twitter and cutting all employees and still having the website run shows Trump that Elon can cut stuff and still have it function.

Government is not like that unless its a anti human corporation.

Im thinking more about his motivation have shifted and gone into politics. He hates the left. One thing is to be annoyed by something, I can sometimes be frustrated with politics on either side, but there is another ting to act out and use energy doing something about. For example if a narcissist is has been hurt, that person would go above and beyond to destroy and harass the person who has responsible. A normal person wouldn´t care to use their energy on childish behavior and move on with their life and learn from the experience.

Going so har against the left and their values have been of deep importance to him lately, and I think that comes from a shift in personality and motivations.

[Hojo]

@fanta The left let the identity politics take over too much and it is leaving a bad taste in the mouth of the population. If you child goes to school and comes home questioning their sexual identity many people see a problem with it, when it shouldn't be entering the minds of them at all. Voting for the left meant way more of this.

If the left said this was bullshit instead of embracing it, they would be in a much better position. 

I would say there was closet racists vs non racists, then the non racists introduced a new inclusivity, genders, and the gender movement got out of control and started condemning people in the same way the non racists did to the closet racists. This forced the people not for identity politics, into the camp of the  closet racists or be cancelled for being yourself.

I beleive alot of this is being pushed by corporations and media and not the people. Essentially products are sold to people and those companies then brainwash the people via news and media into fighting or thinking about specific things. This happens so much that people then bring it into their government and it becomes a reality for them causing massive perspective shifts in people.

Elon Musk is no different.

Edited yesterday at 02:59 PM by Hojo

[Apparition of Jack]

Elon Musk is a solipsistic devil who on some level genuinely believes he’s in some sort of simulation where he’s the main character and his goal in life is to suck as much wealth out of this simulation (money) as possible because that’ll lead to immortality.

Not only is he a deeply unserious and deluded fool, without going into it too much I genuinely think there might be some sort of darker forces attached to him if you want to get into the woo-woo perspective.

With that being said, as reckless as he is you shouldn’t demonise him, he might be a terrible person but he’s still a human being. But a force for good he is not.

[Leo Gura]

Don't forget his ketamine use and his social media addiction.

Twitter alone could have broken his brain. Online self-radicalization is a real thing.

The problem is Musk had no epistemic foundation. So he was easily radicalized by online echochambers.

Edited yesterday at 06:52 PM by Leo Gura

[fanta]

2 hours ago, Hojo said:

@fanta The left let the identity politics take over too much and it is leaving a bad taste in the mouth of the population. If you child goes to school and comes home questioning their sexual identity many people see a problem with it, when it shouldn't be entering the minds of them at all. Voting for the left meant way more of this.

If the left said this was bullshit instead of embracing it, they would be in a much better position. 

I would say there was closet racists vs non racists, then the non racists introduced a new inclusivity, genders, and the gender movement got out of control and started condemning people in the same way the non racists did to the closet racists. This forced the people not for identity politics, into the camp of the  closet racists or be cancelled for being yourself.

I beleive alot of this is being pushed by corporations and media and not the people. Essentially products are sold to people and those companies then brainwash the people via news and media into fighting or thinking about specific things. This happens so much that people then bring it into their government and it becomes a reality for them causing massive perspective shifts in people.

Elon Musk is no different.

To be honest, there is a lot of misconception about kids and sexual identity. I have worked with such children in training, and a lot of the misconception is based upon ignorance. Yes there are some children who question their sexual identity where it is a symptom of something else. Many of them grow out of it. Health personell rarely addresses it, but in some instances, where the feeling of incongruence between for example body and sexual identity is so extreme that the child is capable of comitting suicide, then they are acting upon it. Only the worst parents arent capable of accepting it.

This stuff is real. Like racism, you need to get exposed to what you are ignorant to.

[fanta]

2 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Elon Musk is a solipsistic devil who on some level genuinely believes he’s in some sort of simulation where he’s the main character and his goal in life is to suck as much wealth out of this simulation (money) as possible because that’ll lead to immortality.

Not only is he a deeply unserious and deluded fool, without going into it too much I genuinely think there might be some sort of darker forces attached to him if you want to get into the woo-woo perspective.

With that being said, as reckless as he is you shouldn’t demonise him, he might be a terrible person but he’s still a human being. But a force for good he is not.

I feel like this is a bit black and white thinking. Dont you think people can be good and bad at the same time?

If he only cared about money, why would he start Tesla and Spacex, when these companies was doomed from the start? Look at all green companies going to shit with no profitable business plan other than funding. And when they started Spacex, they had literally no plan to make it profitable (hence why they started with Starlink). Dont you think that he had a vision for a better future for humanity? Musk could have made other technology companies which at the time had a lot higher likelyhood of success.

[Leo Gura]

Musk is a grandiose egomaniac. What drives him is not money, it is his sense of self-importance. He needs to feel like he is ultra important and in charge of mankind's future. Like without him mankind will perish. That's his fundamental delusion.

He's living out a power fantasy. Same as Trump.

Edited yesterday at 06:10 PM by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

The seeds were always there. Remember when he called a cave diver a pedo cause he basically shat on the ridiculous attention whoring Elon was doing when those boys were stuck in that cave? Basically presenting some stupid and useless submarine that first and foremost was him hyping up rather than being carefully engineered and consideration given to the teamwork needed to actually implement such a plan. It was only a matter of time. He would switch back over to any other flavor of the day if he believed it would be fashionable and he would be safe. 

[fanta]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Musk is a grandiose egomaniac. What drives him is not money, it is his sense of self-importance. He needs to feel like he is ultra important and in charge of mankind's future. Like without him mankind will perish. That's his fundamental delusion.

He's living out a power fantasy. Same as Trump.

I think that this make more sense than the other point you were making. But if you look at past interviews of him, do you think that he had a more compassionate and modest demeanor? Do you think that he never was genuine or compassionate?

[Viking]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Musk is a grandiose egomaniac. What drives him is not money, it is his sense of self-importance. He needs to feel like he is ultra important and in charge of mankind's future. Like without him mankind will perish. That's his fundamental delusion.

He's living out a power fantasy. Same as Trump.

Is that so far from the truth though? 

He has a tremendous amount of power and influence, without him the world would definitely look different. "Different" in what way? - we can never say, but we can't say with certainty that the alternatives wouldn't bring humanity to its doom in the near future.

It's not black or white..

[fanta]

3 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

The seeds were always there. Remember when he called a cave diver a pedo cause he basically shat on the ridiculous attention whoring Elon was doing when those boys were stuck in that cave? Basically presenting some stupid and useless submarine that first and foremost was him hyping up rather than being carefully engineered and consideration given to the teamwork needed to actually implement such a plan. It was only a matter of time. He would switch back over to any other flavor of the day if he believed it would be fashionable and he would be safe. 

Yep. And this is a very childish thing to say. He has been very childish for a long time. But have you never been childish yourself? Have you never done something that you have been embarrased about? I personally can do and say stupid things in the heat of the moment. Look at parenting for example. All parents do and say stupid shit to their children all the time which they instantly regret when they are stressed out and hot headed. When people get emotional, their mentalization goes right in the toilet. 

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, fanta said:

I think that this make more sense than the other point you were making. But if you look at past interviews of him, do you think that he had a more compassionate and modest demeanor? Do you think that he never was genuine or compassionate?

He def got radicalized. He is at war now with wokeness. Before he was not.

The reason Musk went to war with wokeness is because he realized wokeness was threatening his desire for absolute power. Wokeness requires sharing of power. Musk wants to operate like a king.

Musk has genuine compassion, but it is completely intertwined with his ego and need for power. So he will rationalize to himself that whatever he's doing is the highest good and therefore the most compassionate path.

Musk cares about doing good, but only in ways that allow him to be king and get his way.

Edited yesterday at 06:36 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, Viking said:

Is that so far from the truth though? 

He has a tremendous amount of power and influence, without him the world would definitely look different.

The delusion is the ego power trip.

And the idea that mankind needs him to survive and thrive.

No individual human is needed.

Mankind does not need to go to Mars. These are power fantasies.

When you think you are that important it ends in delusion and evil.

Is Musk powerful. Yes.

Is Trump powerful. Yes.

Yes, egoic delusions DO work for gaining power. That's the whole point of why ego exists. And also ego is evil.

Edited yesterday at 07:13 PM by Leo Gura

[Apparition of Jack]

35 minutes ago, fanta said:

I feel like this is a bit black and white thinking. Dont you think people can be good and bad at the same time?

If he only cared about money, why would he start Tesla and Spacex, when these companies was doomed from the start? Look at all green companies going to shit with no profitable business plan other than funding. And when they started Spacex, they had literally no plan to make it profitable (hence why they started with Starlink). Dont you think that he had a vision for a better future for humanity? Musk could have made other technology companies which at the time had a lot higher likelyhood of success.

If he’s so keen on getting people to space, why is he calling for the ISS to be deorbited? Why is he saying a moon base is unnecessary to get to Mars (it isn’t, it’ll be an important step)? 
 

Beyond just that, why is he trying to defund national parks, Medicare, veteran benefits etc? None of these things are bad for the economy and the only explanation for these actions is that he’s a greedy asshole who can’t stand the idea of rival powers (in this case, the federal government.) 

How has he genuinely made the lives of regular people better around the world? Electric cars and satellite internet are cool but they aren’t revolutionary ideas that’ll create a more compassionate, just society. Why has he barely contributed to charity? Why does he publicise the names of innocent federal workers for his supporters to send death threats to? Why does he refuse to let the mother of his children see her kids? Why does he censor journalists at the behest of authoritarian governments? Why does he pressure state governments to cancel meaningful railway projects in favour of his hyper-loop that won’t ever exist? Why does he bust unions and treat employees like disposable utilities? Etc etc.
 

All of his actions don’t indicate someone who’s fundamentally trying to uplift the world, but of someone with delusions of grandeur who’s convinced himself he’s the next Einstein when he routinely gets basic sociology and engineering wrong. He’s excellent at marketing himself and creating investor hype but that’s just typical Stage Orange bullshit. He’s really not the sort of selfless Gandhi or even Nikola Tesla he presents himself as.

[AION]

Nobody is perfect. Being genius always comes with the price of being crazy or deranged. 
 

Craziness should not be ashamed since it is not a choice. I think the reason he is what he is because of his awful childhood and autism. Perhaps drugs too. 
 

I’m in IT and he is my role model. And I think he is a good person but childish. But his childhood curiosity made him a genius  so you can’t have the one without the other. 
 

Personally I give him time. My prediction is that we will see a split between Trump and Musk very soon. Musk changed from being a leftist to being in the right. So he has this ability to change positions which knuckle heads don’t have. 

[ricachica]

 

I highly suggest not just basing what kind of person he is just off of his interviews, anyone can make themselves look good in an interview.

This YouTube channel has been thoroughly debunking Elon as a person for 4 years now, back even when most people thought highly of him still.