Top Proofs For The Existence Of God

[Dazgwny]

Clever episode. Well constructed and plenty of food for thought

[EternalForest]

My personal ranking of the arguments from the video, from least convincing to most convincing.

Argument from Faith: | You could have faith in anything, doesn't make it true.

Argument from Scripture: This is like saying your favorite movie is so good, it must've been inspired by God!

Ontological argument: | Basically, the definition of a tautology. If God can exist, God can exist... Pretty bad.

Pascal's Wager: | I used to believe this out of fear but honestly, if God was real, he probably wouldn't let Pascal's Wager believers into heaven because their belief needs to be genuine.

Argument from Free Will: | Not without value but irrelevant to God’s existence.

Moral argument:| Functionally good for the world (for those who believe it), unconvincing for argument's sake.

Argument from Mystery: | So what happens when science can explain everything?

Neoplatonic Proof: | Not convincing. Why does multiplicity require absolute unity as its source?

Aristotle's argument: | Assumptions on assumptions. Why can't there be an infinite chain?

Something From Nothing: | Feels more like another philosophical mind game you play with yourself than a strong proof of God in my opinion.

Argument from Reason: | Despite some deeper layers assumes that the mind of God works the same as ours, which I highly doubt.

Performative Contradiction of Naturalism: | Doesn't necessarily prove God, but should give any scientist or rationalist pause.

Argument from Perennial Philosophy/Popularity/Success: I'm probably in the minority here, but I think there's some weight behind this, more than most. Among the billions of people who believed in God over the years, how likely is it they were all wrong? There has to be something deeper there.

Causal Argument: | It's a bit esoteric with the way it describes the Human/God relationship. Not sure what the average person is supposed to make of it. Like Leo said, it's one big esoteric analogy for something more.

Argument From Participation: | A more sophisticated causal argument, and I like this one better. The top down element is actually very insightful.

Argument From the Big Bang: | Essentially, it's the cosmological argument with less steps, using the big bang as a stand-in. And while it’s not bad and it holds some weight SOMETHING caused the Big Bang, we have no way of being sure it was God.

St. Augustine's Proof #1 & #2: | Good arguments for the idea that there is something ultimately more intelligent and good than humanity, and why its likely to be some sort of God.

Cosmological argument: | Claiming everything has a cause, and therefore the universe has a cause? I can accept that. Claiming that cause is God? That’s a bit of a stretch. It's convincing on the surface, but it kind of jumps to assume God more than I'd like. Still one of the best.

Argument from Consciousness: I completely agree with this. There is an entire spiritual realm that science has no way of properly exploring. Science can NOT properly explain consciousness because its too profound to fall into a box for study, and comes from something higher.

Argument from Miracles: I disagree with Leo a bit on this one. Because even if one of these miracles was true, that’s stronger evidence for the existence of God than most of the previous arguments combined. 

Argument from Personal Experience: Once you correct for self deception in yourself and in others, this is indeed one of the best ways to know that God exists. Because you have experienced it for yourself. Personally, I won’t be 100% convinced of God until I have my own experience one day.

Teleological and fine-tuning arguments/Information theory: | Now these are great in my opinion! (grouped together because they're basically all pointing to the same thing). Considering the complex code of DNA, how complex and perfectly nature operates and how the sun and moon are the perfect distance from the Earth to sustain life, what are the chances that the Earth was created so perfectly exactly the way we experience it without some divine intervention or help from a higher power? Very slim. Even after billions of years of evolution, it's practically a miracle.

Edited March 13 by EternalForest

[Leo Gura]

  On 3/13/2025 at 5:44 AM, EternalForest said:

what are the chances that the Earth was created so perfectly exactly the way we experience it without some divine intervention

Say hello to Pluto, God's abandoned child.

Edited March 13 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

  On 3/13/2025 at 5:44 AM, EternalForest said:

Teleological and fine-tuning arguments/Information theory: | Now these are great in my opinion! (grouped together because they're basically all pointing to the same thing)

I don't see how any of those are good arguments for God and I don't see how those are pointing to God.  Because the chance that an all powerful God would create physics this particular way , with these entailments from the infinite set of other possibilites is also extremely slim.

Why would he prefer life over no life? And after answering that, even assuming that he preferes life, does he have the capacity to create life that can bear any state of affairs? If yes, then this is simply not a good argument for God ,because he could have made us in a way where we could be chilling in the middle of the Sun and have no issue existing and surviving.

  On 3/13/2025 at 5:44 AM, EternalForest said:

Argument from Miracles: I disagree with Leo a bit on this one. Because even if one of these miracles was true, that’s stronger evidence for the existence of God than most of the previous arguments combined. 

I don't see how thats the case. Miracles could be explained by a large set of other things as well. For example other beings using advanced tech or under the assmuption that it is not advanced tech , there could be an infinite number of beings that could hypothetically perform miracles without being all knowing, all powerful etc.

God is simply not necessary to explain miracles.

Edited March 13 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

  On 3/13/2025 at 6:46 AM, zurew said:

God is simply not necessary to explain miracles.

Space Kangaroos!

[sujaykc-01]

The quest for God is a longing to be beautiful and good as much as possible and to live in reality. The search for the proof of god is like looking for a needle in a desert—the existence is the proof, you are the proof. Unless one starts breaking away from the physical laws of God, one will believe that the proof of god can be found somewhere in some cause or the logical paradigm, whereas God includes all these and is more than that. 

I studied Western Philosophy for more than 10 years. Read a lot about Natural Science, Epistemology, Ontology, Metaphysics, and many other subjects for the sake of understanding God. Most of the writers and books I ended up reading were the off-shoots of Platonism. Even the so-called Philosophers are mostly Naturalists, who believe that the natural world and its laws are all that exists, rejecting supernatural or spiritual explanations. If one wants to start setting up their foot on what God is and wants to experience the certainty of God, he should start with the founders of Western Philosophy themselves, namely Platonists and Neoplatonists. 

One of the books I would recommend is:

Platonism and Naturalism by Lloyd P. Gerson where “Lloyd P. Gerson ties platonism to five negations and one affirmation. Platonism denies nominalism, materialism, mechanism, skepticism, and relativism (18-19). Positively, it affirms the first principle of all, the Good or the One (19–20).  It affirms the reality of intellectual objects like truth, justice, and God. Platonism then, for Gerson, zeroes in on the affirmation that the world goes beyond nature, and that there is stable truth that grounds our life. 

I suppose the average appraisal of Platonism might differ. Some may say that Platonism is a full system of thought (and religion) from a bygone era. Others might say it is a secular and therefore anti-religious position. If Gerson is right, such critiques make no sense. Platonism basically affirms that immaterial objects, something beyond rocks, atoms, and quarks exist: things like consciousness, the soul, love, truth, God, and more besides.  

Put in simple (and not particularly accurate) terms, Platonism is anti-post-modernism, a nebulous term that basically describes a post-truth era. Yes, post-modern theorists will roll their eyes at me. But I am here trying to make simple an idea that, as Gerson’s book shows, is complicated.” ( https://www.wyattgraham.com/p/platonism-and-naturalism-by-lloyd-p-gerson-a-review ) 

The other works you can read are by, “regarded as the founder of Neo-Platonism, Plotinus (AD 204-70), who was the last great philosopher of antiquity, producing works that proved in many ways a precursor to Renaissance thought. Plotinus was convinced of the existence of a state of supreme perfection and argued powerfully that it was necessary to guide the human soul towards this state. Here ‘in his book The Enneads’ he
 outlines his compelling belief in three increasingly perfect levels of existence - the Soul, the Intellect, and the One - and explains his conviction that humanity must strive to draw the soul towards spiritual transcendence. A fusion of Platonism, mystic passion and Aristotelian thought, The Enneads offers a highly original synthesis of early philosophical and religious beliefs, which powerfully influenced later Christian and Islamic theology.” ( https://www.londonreviewbookshop.co.uk/stock/the-enneads-plotinus )

[Willie]

∞/∞ = 0/0 = 1

[zurew]

  On 3/13/2025 at 8:17 AM, Leo Gura said:

Space Kangaroos

Gandalf is good enough for me

[Oppositionless]

Do you think God can be proved through logic? Or just awakening? 
 

I had an existential crisis watching an atheist YouTuber recently, I tried to mentally go through my logical reasons for believing in God again and they all seemed to fall flat, and I think the problem is my arguments aren't supported by a direct consciousness.

Edited March 13 by Oppositionless

[TheEnigma]

Then does God or nothing care to have a personal connection with us? Or is it just our ego that needs the personal connection. And if the answer is yes, but it's not acquired by Christian ways, how is it obtained?

[Leo Gura]

@TheEnigma God's relationship with you is more than personal, it is identity.

You are God.

What you should relate with is your own infinite beauty, intelligence, and love for reality. That's the ultimate relationship: to fall in love with yourself. Not some bearded Jesus in the clouds.

Worshipping idols vs basking in your own beauty and love.

Edited March 13 by Leo Gura

[The Crocodile]

@Leo Gura Would you consider making an inverse episode steelmanning non-God perspectives like Tom Campbell's My Big TOE, different schools of Buddhism focused on alleviating suffering over the Truth, scientific materialism as part of relative reality, etc. and trying to figure out how those fit into the truth?

[The Crocodile]

@Leo Gura Here, there are some problems I'm musing over. Some of the answers may appear obvious, but steelmanning every perspective for more of a fullness of perspective in the end can be a maddening process.

Such as

1. If you could pick sufferinglessness or Truthfulness which one is more valuable? (if it were a binary situation for the configuration of reality, how reality will be configured forever)

2. Is sufferinglessness (say a drab object with no suffering for a thousand years) or Beauty (but with some undercurrent or partiality or off-to-the-side inclusion of some pattern-recognizable suffering for a thousand years) more valuable? So is aesthetic or liberation from suffering more valuable, if you were forced to choose.

3. Is Concrete Intelligence in the form of working with engines and code or physical eyesight vs. Abstract Intelligence in the form of emotion and relationships and dreams/imagination more valuable?

 

Edited March 13 by The Crocodile

[Terell Kirby]

  On 3/13/2025 at 10:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

You are God.

the greatest insight of all time. So profound but leaves us in such awe and mystery. Life becomes an Infinite game of Self discovery from here.

[Staples]

You exist.

You are a product of reality.

You are made of reality.

Whatever reality is, is God.

You are God.

Edited March 14 by Staples

[Terell Kirby]

Bravo @Leo Gura! This one was a doozy- well thought out and articulated. I loved the flow from proof to proof, I can tell you put a good deal into this one.

Few insights:

• Your version of the ontological argument was by far more favorite. Any proof that gives takes seriously the problems and questions of existence and Infinity is automatically a worthy proof in of itself
• Teleological and fine tuning proofs/arguments of God was second runner up. It does justice to stress tough questions of causality, contemplate how Intelligence is a play from both theistic and scientific paradigms
• Lastly, it really strikes me how stupid arguments of faith, moralism, popularity and scripture are -relative to more advanced proofs/arguments. Yet I feel as though this is the ground for how most people argue for and against the existence of God. 

Listing problematic assumptions in at the end of the video was great. I plan on typing out a list and hanging it up in a few places around my apartment. I can spend a month or two contemplating.

Highly valuable video that provides more insight into how humans go about holding the idea of God in their minds, which helps understand what is going on with culture, business, entertainment, art, media and politics at large. Good stuff