What makes struggle and suffering essential in our lives?

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, HMD said:

@Princess Arabia Yeah, if you just go back to being one with everything, the struggle component kinda fades away. But that's entering the domain of the absolute. 

But to make shit happen, to get results, you have to be in the relative domain. I know the distinction between the absolute and relative is imaginary, but it's really important to get things done. 

Now, if you master the absolute (Understand that you are not separate, among other things) and then come back to the relative, the struggle feels natural. There is no bias (or at least you are good at eliminating the bias).

This connects well to what @UnbornTao was saying earlier. 

Does this resonate with ehat you were trying to say? 

You don't go back to being one with everything you recognize that you are NOT DOING ANYTHING and the mental struggle stops. 

"But it's really important to get things done" like you said, is the thing that puts us in the struggle. It's only important to the egoic mind structure that thinks it's in control. 

Things are getting done but it's not by you,it's by life's will. When you start to observe you'll start to recognize this. It's not about surrendering and letting go but to realize there was never anything to surrender to or let go of because those things happen automatically when you realize it's all energetic and it flows in unison with the energy that you're embodying. It goes hand n hand. Struggle and fighting life carries with it a different kind of energy than one that's at ease with everything. 

 

[Ishanga]

24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Ishanga  

When in the history of mankind, in a war in which hundreds of thousands die and the balance of the world is at stake, have the powers abstained from using all their military power? It has never happened before.

This means that real, total, annihilating war is impossible. It would annihilate humanity and this makes it unprofitable. There is less and less war, think of the last century, the one before, and so on until prehistory. War was constant, genocidal and total. Now it is a game of chess that at a given moment is revealed as a stupidity that harms everyone, but if nukes didn't exist, the world would now be something similar to the Warhammer novels.

Perhaps this is the last war, evolution dictates it so, since the available weapons are impossible to use without dying.

Maybe Your right, we will see, I cannot say 100% what will happen, but its not just via Wars that we can annihilate ourselves, climate, soil is bad, ppl's addictions are bad, mental health is getting worse, and there are many many others things going on that can annihilate this world, so it is not just by War.. This time is and is not the best of times, it depends and is relative for sure, for some this is the best of times, for others it is not, this has always been so, but again because of technology and maybe AI, things are drastically changing fast, not enough time for most to catch up... We'll see...

[Ishanga]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You don't go back to being one with everything you recognize that you are NOT DOING ANYTHING and the mental struggle stops. 

"But it's really important to get things done" like you said, is the thing that puts us in the struggle. It's only important to the egoic mind structure that thinks it's in control. 

Things are getting done but it's not by you,it's by life's will. When you start to observe you'll start to recognize this. It's not about surrendering and letting go but to realize there was never anything to surrender to or let go of because those things happen automatically when you realize it's all energetic and it flows in unison with the energy that you're embodying. It goes hand n hand. Struggle and fighting life carries with it a different kind of energy than one that's at ease with everything. 

 

Again this is half right.. There is a concept called Dharma, or cosmic order or will, this is what is allowing Nature as we know it to exist, there are laws in place, like Gravity is consistent, things don't fluctuate daily in weight otherwise life as we know it would not be able to exist, there are many other forces or dharma in place, its a will of sorts that You cannot control or deny, how we react/respond to it is our individual Will, this is why Life is here, so we can explore this Will and Freedom, so as surfers ride the waves in the ocean, we can ride this Dharma and see where it takes us, the basics of it is do we Suffer thru this Dharma or are Blissed out thru this Dharma, the choice is ours to make...

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Maybe Your right, we will see, I cannot say 100% what will happen, but its not just via Wars that we can annihilate ourselves, climate, soil is bad, ppl's addictions are bad, mental health is getting worse, and there are many many others things going on that can annihilate this world, so it is not just by War.. This time is and is not the best of times, it depends and is relative for sure, for some this is the best of times, for others it is not, this has always been so, but again because of technology and maybe AI, things are drastically changing fast, not enough time for most to catch up... We'll see...

Agree, it's impossible to make a prediction. About mental health, imagine a guy from the 18th century with a white wig who stopped talking to his son forever because he had married a lower-class woman, who whipped his black slave to encourage him to work before going to church to pray, since he was terrified of hell, and who had as his highest authority the king, chosen by God.

[HMD]

@Sugarcoat I am merely trying to give it meaning. I know it's inherently meaningless, but I like to exercise my creative faculties to give it  meaning. By giving it meaning it won’t make the suffering any less , but it would make it worth it. 

From another angle you can see it as a bar chart, with one bar being meaning and the other being suffering. I am trying to increase the meaning without touching the suffering/ hardship. 

 

[HMD]

@Ishanga Yes, that aligns with the suffering = resistance theory. Unconsciousness means you resist things in your experience, so they feel unpleasant. 

It's definately about the framing. If I know I have to get up and study something in my field to advance myself, I can see it as a chore, but if I see the truth of it, I would know that I am just exploring consciousness. 

This ties back to your point, struggle is unconsciousness.

There is a trap here though, I have seen people’s ego hijacking their awareness of the absolute to the point that they don't want to do anything and announce that there is no point. There is some truth in this statement, but as it is coming from the ego, it leads to pain. 

[Sugarcoat]

17 minutes ago, HMD said:

@Sugarcoat I am merely trying to give it meaning. I know it's inherently meaningless, but I like to exercise my creative faculties to give it  meaning. By giving it meaning it won’t make the suffering any less , but it would make it worth it. 

From another angle you can see it as a bar chart, with one bar being meaning and the other being suffering. I am trying to increase the meaning without touching the suffering/ hardship. 

 

I see your point. I think the answer is quite nuanced and it depends on the suffering. For example the suffering you feel when you don’t wanna workout but do it anyways, it’s “worth it” becuase you’ll be closer to your goals if you do workout. The suffering you feel from a heartbreak, is that worth it? Maybe you learn from it not to become too attached or something to someone . So in that sense it was worth it. The pain from a chronic illness? Maybe not worth it. Maybe some things are just bad and don’t offer any worth. So it depends

Edited 11 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[HMD]

@Princess Arabia Ah yes, I missed that. Good insight. 

[HMD]

@Sugarcoat Now we’re talking right. 

The payoffs that you mentioned are too niche with some struggles having no apparent payoffs. But what I am trying to build is a meta payoff that all suffering/hardships/struggles have.  

I have got several answers to this so far, such as: 

1. It is what makes life interesting. Without it, there is no point in living. (God mode argument).
2. It helps you get to the Truth. Because once you struggle enough, you want to escape it, and one way to escape it is to realize the Truth (no self etc). 
3. It is essential for evolution. Without suffering/hardship, there is no evolution. So, in a way, you are working directly to further God’s plan.
4. Struggle helps you get ahead. It's the cost you pay for greatness. As most people are biased against struggle, you can get ahead simply by carefully getting rid of that bias. 

Edited 10 hours ago by HMD