The value in starting a family

[Basman]

My mother told me once that she in retrospect wouldn't have children given a second chance. Not because of a lack of love but because she would rather have focused that attention on her niche interests (she's autistic). She's an example of someone who is not a family person at heart. On the other hand I've met people who are very passionate about raising children, regardless if they have them.

I think it is worth trialing having kids by looking after young cousins for a week or something. See how it makes you feel. Even if just to confirm that you don't want kids.

[Chadders]

@Sugarcoat I don’t think there is so much expectation now. Not in the west anyway. Liberal values have changed that. As a man I certainly don’t feel any expectation to start a family I’ve just reached a stage in my life where I feel ready to. Where there is expectation it’s definitely coming from lower developmental stages. Starting a family should be for the right reasons not because others expect you to do it so I agree that’s a problem and does exaggerate global population levels and also levels of dysfunction in society

This is where it is the conflation with family and spiral dynamics stage blue that bothers me as it’s not dependent on a stage of development. It’s a very beautiful thing at the higher stages - at a higher level it is about conscious evolution. Loving and nurturing your children so that they will leave the world in a better state than what your generation did. It’s a process of undoing the inherited trauma we all live with going back to the dawn of human civilisation. See your children grow and develop into a conscious human being is probably one of the most rewarding things you can possibly do in life - again when it is done from a higher place

Make no mistake there is actually a deep spiritual purpose. A divine purpose in having children and starting a family. I know this for sure because I’ve had profound insights on this

Edited Saturday at 07:50 AM by Chadders

[Chadders]

@Schizophonia Starting a family is a serious thing. It’s not something to be taken casually. It’s a huge responsibility but one that is incredibly rewarding

[Chadders]

@Nemra Yes your level of maturity will determine whether you know you are ready to start a family or not regardless of whether you actually do

I once knew someone who wanted to have a baby but for all the wrong reasons. She thought that it would make her happy and I could tell that she was seeking some kind of external validation from it. So glad she never did have a baby she was very immature for her age - she’s 41 now

Edited Saturday at 07:48 AM by Chadders

[Chadders]

@NewKidOnTheBlock If this is your thinking this should immediately tell you that you are not mature enough to start a family

[Chadders]

@Basman Only recently I’ve been struck by the divine around starting a family. Has never really been on my mind as something I would Purposefully want to do but after a divine communication on mushrooms it basically told me that I’m ready to start a family now

It does make sense because I’ve been working on myself a lot over the last few years and have radically changed as a man in many respects. So for me it’s more that starting a family feels now very purposeful to me. I can see the deep meaning and value behind. I can’t force it to happen it’s up to the universe but I feel more intentional about that

Edited Saturday at 10:37 AM by Chadders

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, Chadders said:

@Sugarcoat I don’t think there is so much expectation now. Not in the west anyway. Liberal values have changed that. As a man I certainly don’t feel any expectation to start a family I’ve just reached a stage in my life where I feel ready to. Where there is expectation it’s definitely coming from lower developmental stages. Starting a family should be for the right reasons not because others expect you to do it so I agree that’s a problem and does exaggerate global population levels and also levels of dysfunction in society

This is where it is the conflation with family and spiral dynamics stage blue that bothers me as it’s not dependent on a stage of development. It’s a very beautiful thing at the higher stages - at a higher level it is about conscious evolution. Loving and nurturing your children so that they will leave the world in a better state than what your generation did. It’s a process of undoing the inherited trauma we all live with going back to the dawn of human civilisation. See your children grow and develop into a conscious human being is probably one of the most rewarding things you can possibly do in life - again when it is done from a higher place

Make no mistake there is actually a deep spiritual purpose. A divine purpose in having children and starting a family. I know this for sure because I’ve had profound insights on this

Takes a highly developed conscious person to create such children and make it into a divine purpose 

[Nilsi]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is eating food also an artistic pursuit for you? 😆

Do you have a need to be productive and creative? 🤔🧐

You can of course be "productive and creative" and create problems where there are none, like creating a distinction between productivity/creativity vs getting your needs met, or you can say "yes — both", which has really become my default position to most things nowadays 😊 The beauty of what I call "the statistical worldview": things are rarely one thing, often many, at least two (but not either/or).

You wouldn’t just eat whatever dead calories you need to stay alive - obviously, eating can be done consciously, and cooking can even be an art.

When it comes to starting a family, it’s pretty clear to me that most people don’t do it because they have some deep, spiritual belief in the beauty of creating and nurturing life. It’s more like they think it’ll fill some kind of hole in themselves. Especially girls - they build up this fantasy that once they have a kid, all their problems will just disappear. It’s classic Lacan: objet petit a at work, that thing you’re chasing that always seems like it’ll complete you, but the second you get it, it slips away, and you’re left chasing the next thing.

Again, this all comes down to whether you’re coming from a place of lack or a place of excess. Having a family because you want to add to the beauty of life is one thing - doing it because you think it’ll fix your depression is a whole different beast.

[Cireeric]

12 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Again, this all comes down to whether you’re coming from a place of lack or a place of excess. Having a family because you want to add to the beauty of life is one thing - doing it because you think it’ll fix your depression is a whole different beast.

Whats your formular to get to a place of excess?

[Nilsi]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can of course be "productive and creative" and create problems where there are none, like creating a distinction between productivity/creativity vs getting your needs met, or you can say "yes — both", which has really become my default position to most things nowadays 😊 The beauty of what I call "the statistical worldview": things are rarely one thing, often many, at least two (but not either/or).

As for this point - hard disagree.

Life is about choices and there’s always a tradeoff between pushing the boundaries of creative work and maintaining a so-called balanced life that ticks every box of conventional well-being.

It’s no accident that the greatest artists, philosophers, and spiritual figures weren’t living in some suburban dream with a neatly portioned work-life balance, hitting yoga class and weekend BBQs with the neighbors.

That kind of setup might be cozy, but if you actually want to create something remarkable, it’s the fastest way to dull your edge into total mediocrity. 

[Nilsi]

11 minutes ago, Cireeric said:

Whats your formular to get to a place of excess?

This is ultimately an economic question.

We’re not living in some Marxist hellhole where every ounce of our time and energy is wrung dry - there’s always a surplus, always something left to spend.

That surplus can expand itself creatively, generating new possibilities, or it can get trapped in the structure of lack, where excess warps into a void - a vacuum that endlessly chases illusions, trying to fill itself with something that never arrives.

Edited Saturday at 04:41 PM by Nilsi

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Takes a highly developed conscious person to create such children and make it into a divine purpose 

If you make children for "divine purpose" this intention will be tacitly conveyed and they will end up neurotic.

9 hours ago, Chadders said:

@Schizophonia Starting a family is a serious thing. It’s not something to be taken casually. It’s a huge responsibility but one that is incredibly rewarding

I meant you are making a big deal out of it.
 

[Schizophonia]

42 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Especially girls - they build up this fantasy that once they have a kid, all their problems will just disappear. It’s classic Lacan: objet petit a at work

Your creative work is also unconsciously a substitute phallus.

[Nilsi]

17 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Your creative work is also unconsciously a substitute phallus.

My point is precisely that creative work isn’t just another cog in the symbolic order, it’s a way out. It’s not some desperate reach for a missing phallus or whatever, it’s about breaking loose, tapping into new intensities, letting desire actually move instead of getting stuck in the same old lack-driven cycle.

And yeah, like I said to Carl earlier, excess and lack are two sides of the same coin. It’s on you to take surplus and turn it into a force for liberation instead of letting it trap you.

I think Lacan’s work is hugely important, but I ultimately reject the nihilism at the core of it. 

Also, didn’t i tell you to read Anti-Oedipus already?  

Edited Saturday at 05:17 PM by Nilsi

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

If you make children for "divine purpose" this intention will be tacitly conveyed and they will end up neurotic.

I don’t see how that would be, you’re still having the children becuase you want them as people so you’ll love them properly for how they are 

Edited Saturday at 05:57 PM by Sugarcoat

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

10 hours ago, Chadders said:

@NewKidOnTheBlock If this is your thinking this should immediately tell you that you are not mature enough to start a family

I was just pointing to a reality that this is how a family is created in actuality - it is more of a unconscious process. Doing before thinking. People who think before they do tend to reproduce in much lesser numbers

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t see how that would be, you’re still having the children becuase you want them as people so you’ll love them properly for how they are 

I'm not sur i understood lol, this sentence is not English my otter.

 

I'm going to make a post about this on my journal, it gave me the idea.

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

My point is precisely that creative work isn’t just another cog in the symbolic order, it’s a way out. It’s not some desperate reach for a missing phallus or whatever, it’s about breaking loose, tapping into new intensities, letting desire actually move instead of getting stuck in the same old lack-driven cycle.

And yeah, like I said to Carl earlier, excess and lack are two sides of the same coin. It’s on you to take surplus and turn it into a force for liberation instead of letting it trap you.

I think Lacan’s work is hugely important, but I ultimately reject the nihilism at the core of it. 

You are creative to create a hole (a representation in reality) that will then allow you to enjoy filling it (by the phallus).

When JK Rowling creates Harry Potter, she artificially creates a hole (a plot) to then be able to fill it (death of the villain, party with Dumbledore in the great hall of Hogwarts, stuff like that).
It's the same for any creative work, all of life is like that; It is the life drive/death drive axis, or as Richard Abibon would say, Narcissism/Libido.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/psychology/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/fort-da

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that "creation" is outside of the real, as if there were something other than real(and therefore emptiness, holes (symbolic representations) in the real) or something other than creation.
A work can be more or less abstract and therefore it may not be so obvious, but it is always the same libido, organized around survival, that generates it

The only way to escape all this is to dissolve the holes, and then we fall into Buddhism, ascetic traditions...
I believe that 5 MeO DMT is much promoted for awakening because it blocks the ability to symbolize reality.

 

Tell me if I misunderstood something.

Quote

Also, didn’t i tell you to read Anti-Oedipus already?  

Lol.
I'll let it know if I buy it, but I already have a lot to read.

Edited Saturday at 08:52 PM by Schizophonia

[Sugarcoat]

54 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm not sur i understood lol, this sentence is not English my otter.

 

I'm going to make a post about this on my journal, it gave me the idea.

You’re the last person to accuse someone of being hard to understand #burn

Roast aside I meant that what’s the harm in seeing having children as a divine purpose as long as you mainly want them as people and love them properly for who they are

Edited Saturday at 09:23 PM by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

You’re the last person to accuse someone of being hard to understand #burn

gnegnegne