Don't worry, Trump supporters will be forced to come to their senses,

[Wilhelm44]

eventually, just like the flat earthers had to. It's kind of the same principle - when the status quo isn't particularly appealing or super satisfying, it's easy to be tempted when something seemingly maverick or radical comes along. Which is why even relatively intelligent people, like Russel Brand for example, have been hypnotized temporarily. But we are all fooled by some aspect of reality at one point or another. So what's needed right now, is not name calling or feeling superior in one's point of view, but rather the energy of actual compassion. (ps, if you think people can't change - my dad is 78, was a big Trump fan, but when he saw the Zelinsky ambush in the oval office, even he was like, whoa, this don't feel right.)

Edited Friday at 09:10 AM by Wilhelm44

[Leo Gura]

Too late for empathy. The only solution now is massive financial suffering.

People who cannot learn any other way will learn only through suffering.

When people's 401ks are cut in half, then they will learn.

Edited Friday at 09:44 AM by Leo Gura

[Wilhelm44]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Too late for empathy. The only solution now is massive financial suffering.

People who cannot learn any other way will learn only through suffering.

It's never too late for empathy, but true, suffering is how most of us wake up. And whether it was Trump or someone else, it was inevitable that the current system would self destruct, in some way, at some stage, to allow something a tad bit more humane to emerge.

Edited Friday at 10:09 AM by Wilhelm44

[DocWatts]

No, they won't. At least most of them won't, until it's too late. Waiting for a mass exodus of Trump voters to grow a conscience is a fool's errand, when they've had countless opportunities to do so over the better part of a decade.

Most will continue to believe that it's undocumented immigrants and the Democrats who are ruining their lives when Trump is taking away their Social Security and Veteran's benefits. Or they'll still consider Trump the 'lesser of two evils' when he starts a war with Canada or abandons NATO to ally the US with Putin.

The vast majority of people who collaborated with the Nazis never took any personal responsibility for their political choices. It was the next generation after the war who began the painful process of grappling with Germany's past. By and large these 'little Nazis' were okay with what Hitler was doing, right up until they were the ones who were paying for it with their lives. But by then it was too late. It won't be any different with most MAGAs.

First they came for the undocumented immigrants. And I did not speak out because I was not an immigrant.

Then they came for trans people. And I did not speak out because I was not trans.

Then they came for federal workers. And I did not speak out because I was not a federal worker.

Then they came for me. And there was no one left to speak out for me.

Edited Friday at 02:41 PM by DocWatts

[Hatfort]

Those negatively affected directly will.

First ones were Latinos for Trump. They were like, you're gonna expel us too, we thought you were gonna expel the other Latinos. It's the case for example the right-wing Latino immigrants from Venezuela or Cuba that were getting permits, that they thought for some reason that they were not on the broad immigrant group that would be targeted.

All the rhetoric about DEI, I think black people are getting tired of having fingers pointed at them by racists, when they are not the principal recipient of those programs in the first place. Related, veterans and rural Americans are too, they're getting cuts, and they don't like it. They thought this wasn't about them.

Thousands of federal workers fired, now they can apply at Burger King, McDonalds, or whore themselves in Las Vegas. The private sector doesn't need to hire them, in fact, it's good for them that more people compete for jobs and they can lower the wages, because more desperate people are in need. But indirectly a lot of private businesses notice it when more people are poor and jobless, because they their services or products are not bouthg, so this goes with them too. The private sector and the public sector need each other, none of them are evil, but there needs to be a balance.

Again in the rural America, apparently some USAID programs were about buying crops from American farmers and sending the food to poor countries. Cut. Now they have to sell their farms, vulture corporations will buy them cheaply. Bye idyllic life in the prairie which was dependent on government public aid, hello shitty life in the city where most of your wage will go to the landlord, if you get a job. Instant vote regret.

Trump is benefiting the richest class and the biggest corporations. Inequality in America will rise, and won't be reversed. Still, the boomer generation is wide and still untouchable because they hold the numbers. I think America is screwed, they'll rig the system to continue in power.

[Leo Gura]

There is 25% of hardcore MAGA who will never change and are a lost cause. But there is a large 30% swing middle who will turn on Trump once they feel the coming economic misery.

And of course all the Dem voters will loathe Trump. So their passion matters. It's not just a simple binary now like voting because protests and activism is all about passionate people.

Edited Friday at 10:28 AM by Leo Gura

[zazen]

Saw a interesting tweet from Caitlin Johnstone related to this:

''People in politics and media who oppose the status quo often drift rightward, especially in the US; Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr are some clear recent examples. This is because the Trumpian political wing offers mainstream power and influence to those with an "anti-establishment" streak, while mainstream progressive politics doesn't offer anything close. If you're a right wing "populist" you can get elected president, while anyone to the left of Kamala Harris sees their campaigns sabotaged with smear campaigns and rigged primaries.

We see a similar dynamic play out in independent media; you'll see many solidly leftist commentators drifting to the right as they find bigger numbers in attacking liberal institutions than attacking the Trumpian faction, because anti-establishment sentiment is much more mainstream on the right. A much larger audience pool has been allowed to amass there for hostility toward establishment institutions — because the right poses no threat to real power.

And therein lies the key point. Anti-establishment figures in politics and punditry aren't drifting rightward because the right has better arguments or is more solidly grounded in truth and morality, they're drifting rightward because the so-called "populist right" has been allowed to flourish while its mirror on the left has not. Right wing "populism" has been allowed to flourish by the very power structures they purport to oppose, while the authentic left has been systematically dismantled by generations of aggressive imperial operations (look up COINTELPRO for example). That's why you see Trump backed by oligarchs, empire managers and DC swamp monsters and uplifted by the Murdoch press while anti-imperialist socialism can barely even be said to exist anywhere in the US-aligned world.

So while the power and influence offered by right wing "populist" factions can be tempting, that power and influence only exists because those factions are supported and defended by the empire itself. Public discontent is being corralled toward establishment-friendly political structures so that it doesn't head anywhere that can threaten the mechanics of the empire, while authentic opposition to capitalism, militarism and empire building is viciously subverted by any means necessary. Bernie Sanders and AOC play the same role on the other side of the aisle, by the way, as do ostensibly leftist media like TYT who herd people back into support for the Democratic Party.

Real opposition to real power is not permitted to ascend to the presidency of the world's most powerful government. It is marginalized, smeared and subverted, and kept as small as possible. That's why some who begin with sincere opposition to real power find themselves drawn to the right: it's larger and offers more opportunities, because it is more aligned with the ruling power structures of our day. It's fool's gold. It sells you power and influence so that you can fight the power, but after you've paid you find yourself on the same side as the power. You sold out for nothing. You might as well have skipped the middle part and gone directly to collecting the big bucks whoring yourself out to mainstream politics and media defending the empire without pretending to be something else.

Staying true and authentic can be hard. It comes at a price. You don't get to see your favorite politicians win elections and take important positions in government. You don't get to amass tens of millions of loyal followers who hang on your every word. You lose friends and alienate family members with your positions on war and capitalism and imperialism and Zionism. You can't even watch a movie or a show without being frequently disgusted by the empire propaganda you'll see. It isn't pretty. But at least it's real. It's another one of those red pill vs blue pill deals.

Do you want disconcerting truths or comforting lies? If you want to be true to what's true, you don't compromise your values to support political factions which support the very power structures you oppose. You stay focused on the enemy. You keep throwing sand in the gears of the machine, hoping that if enough people throw enough sand it will eventually come crashing down, but self-assured that you're going to keep throwing sand either way, win or lose. Sure it's hard. Sure it entails a lot of disappointments and losses. But at least it's real. At least it stands a chance at beating the bastards, however small. As weak and pathetic as you can feel throwing haymakers at a globe-spanning empire some days, it sure beats the hell out of collaborating with it. And that's exactly what you'd be doing by joining up with fraudulent political factions which claim to oppose the empire.''

[Leo Gura]

Obviously right-wing populism is just a grift for the powerful to do business as usual, but with zero checks and balances.

And a real redistribution of power and wealth is not even on the table.

The left loses and isn't popular precisely because being truly progressive requires not siding with power.

Progressives don't have power because power isn't freely given, it must be grabbed.

Edited Friday at 10:54 AM by Leo Gura

[Chadders]

@Wilhelm44 There will be karma to pay for sure. Mindless demagoguery of Trump and his ass kissing minions like Vance will run its course. Hopefully the damage is not too irredeemable for America 

To be honest I couldn’t believe what I was watching with how Trump and Vance bullied Zelensky live on air. The immaturity and the sense of entitlement. The lack of human compassion and professionalism. Unfucking believable. Zelensky is a guest. Treat him with respect. They are our brothers and sisters out there sacrificing their lives for the heart and soul of their country 

The war can’t go on forever but the way it should be handled is not this way

[Frylock]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Too late for empathy. The only solution now is massive financial suffering.

People who cannot learn any other way will learn only through suffering.

When people's 401ks are cut in half, then they will learn.

This is what pisses me off the most. I have great 401K standing. I didn't vote for this. And yet I'm gonna suffer because of brain dead goat fuckers.

I hope those who voted for him suffer the worst!

[DocWatts]

2 hours ago, Frylock said:

This is what pisses me off the most. I have great 401K standing. I didn't vote for this. And yet I'm gonna suffer because of brain dead goat fuckers.

I hope those who voted for him suffer the worst!

How about everyone who's paid into Social Security for decades only to have our money from our paychecks literally STOLEN from us when Elon / Trump axes Social Security.

Edited Friday at 05:46 PM by DocWatts

[Lyubov]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously right-wing populism is just a grift for the powerful to do business as usual, but with zero checks and balances.

And a real redistribution of power and wealth is not even on the table.

The left loses and isn't popular precisely because being truly progressive requires not siding with power.

Progressives don't have power because power isn't freely given, it must be grabbed.

I therefore then don’t see why you are against left wing populism taking over the dems. A worker’s revolution would help the average American and it won’t be some communist take over like the right has been screaming about for the last 30 years.

[CuriousJames]

.

Edited Friday at 07:56 PM by CuriousJames

[Wilhelm44]

5 hours ago, Chadders said:

@Wilhelm44 There will be karma to pay for sure. Mindless demagoguery of Trump and his ass kissing minions like Vance will run its course. Hopefully the damage is not too irredeemable for America 

To be honest I couldn’t believe what I was watching with how Trump and Vance bullied Zelensky live on air. The immaturity and the sense of entitlement. The lack of human compassion and professionalism. Unfucking believable. Zelensky is a guest. Treat him with respect. They are our brothers and sisters out there sacrificing their lives for the heart and soul of their country 

The war can’t go on forever but the way it should be handled is not this way

I hear you. ps, if i were to place bets, i dont see this administration surviving an entire 4 years. 

[Justin Evans]

There isn't a learning mechanism for Trump supporters anymore. When the government functioned and carried out consequences for criminal behavior, MAGA still thought those convictions and indictments were rigged. Now there's no more checks in place or even accurate facts on what's going on, MAGA can completely deny reality and blame Biden for every time they shit the bed.

[ricachica]

@zazen very nicely worded, thank you for sharing

[PurpleTree]

16 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I hear you. ps, if i were to place bets, i dont see this administration surviving an entire 4 years. 

Me neither there’s just too much friction.

[Frylock]

On 3/7/2025 at 4:24 AM, Leo Gura said:

There is 25% of hardcore MAGA who will never change and are a lost cause. But there is a large 30% swing middle who will turn on Trump once they feel the coming economic misery.

Ironically, it's not the hardcore MAGAts that I disdain the most. They're so far gone, so delusional and distorted that they're basically certifiably insane.

The swing voters, on the other hand, are the ones most at fault. They're supposed to be the middle ground, the more rational side. What in the hell did they misunderstand about Trump and his blatantly obvious corruption? Trump basically plastered in bold, neon colors saying "Hey, I'm gonna cause chaos and fuck over the economy!" and they missed the cues.

[eos_nyxia]

My hot take is that there are two people with pieces of work for fathers, Elon and Trump, who are also magnets for people with various daddy issues.

Of course they will defend them until they lose too much for it to be tolerable, or else they'll go down with that ship. No surprise there. Tell them that their daddy doesn't love or care about them in the least, and they deflect.

Noticing that vibe with the people who support Canada's annexation and Maple Leaf MAGAs here in Canada. It reeks. Not that it's anyone's fault what their parents chose to do to them growing up, but still. The standard issue answer applies here: go to therapy and/ or do some introspection and sort yourself out?

Edited Saturday at 10:48 PM by eos_nyxia

[Hardkill]

I want to believe that, OP, but that may not happen if the Democrats and the Left fail to create a strong enough messaging machine to effectively counter the dominance of right-wing propaganda. They also need to develop more emotionally compelling and easy-to-understand messages that clearly present a positive liberal agenda for the country.

Otherwise, I fear that the majority of the country will continue to be brainwashed in an Orwellian manner into believing that Trumpism and the GOP are fine or still preferable to the Democratic Party running the country by 2028 and beyond. It's like in the book 1984: "War is peace," "famine is plenty," "poverty is wealth."

Yet, I am still very uncertain that the Democrats and the Left will be able to figure out their messaging problem in time. That's why, as of now, I honestly think our country will need not just another severe recession to turn against Trump and his party, but something even more drastic. To annihilate Trumpism and the radical right-wing in this country, it may take both another economic depression—like the Long Depression of the late 1800s or the Great Depression of the 1930s—and/or another national security crisis, such as World War I, World War II, or the Cold War, to push voters to elect a new Democratic or progressive president in their prime, running on a bold liberal populist vision for the country, and to elect overwhelming Democratic majorities in both chambers of Congress."

The next president may also need to be a once-in-a-generation, charismatic leader and true class warrior—like Theodore Roosevelt or FDR—capable of rallying the American people against corporate oppression and right-wing extremism.

Edited yesterday at 02:34 AM by Hardkill