Why do you believe you are not an AI?

[theleelajoker]

• Please reply as simple as possible. Clear statement, concrete example if possible
• You cannot know for sure so we talk about believe, not facts
• The way AI learns is similar to how the mind works
• What reasons make you believe you are not an AI?
• If you believe you are an AI in a simulated environment - what reasons make you believe so?

Edited Tuesday at 03:24 PM by theleelajoker

[OBEler]

It's simple: awareness. Being conscious of appearances.

 

 

[theleelajoker]

@OBEler

Let's take a cellphone and a chat app. You type in sth in the text box - and the program notices that sth has been entered in the text box and does follow up action such as auto suggest. 

With exception of higher complexity: Where do you make the difference between you noticing (being conscious) of objects (apearences) and the example above?

Basically it's just one more level: I notice that I notice. Or am I missing sth?

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:42 PM by theleelajoker

[Hojo]

I beleive we are AI. Akashic record is where your algorithm comes from. Reality is a first person simulation not 3rd person at all. I beleive it because of experiences with psychedelics I have had. Everything above or below nothing except you is simulated. You being the little thing in your mind you feel when you scream in your head. Everything except that is a simulation. There is God the simulation and you that thing you can feel inside of you. You react to God with that thing and God simulates reality based on that things reaction. Both mirroring themselves to create an illusion. We at our core are not AI but when we see ourselves we see we are nothing. So our identities are AI, what we think we are is a simulation.

Edited Tuesday at 04:39 PM by Hojo

[theleelajoker]

6 minutes ago, Hojo said:

I beleive we are AI. Akashic record is where your algorithm comes from. Reality is a first person simulation not 3rd person at all. I beleive it because of experiences with psychedelics I have had. Everything above or below nothing except you is simulated. You being the little thing in your mind you feel when you scream in your head. Everything except that is a simulation. There is God the simulation and you that thing you can feel inside of you. You react to God with that thing and God simulates reality based on that things reaction. Both mirroring themselves to create an illusion.

I am curious about your view, but I have difficulties following. Can you please paraphrase, elaborate, or give examples?

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:42 PM by theleelajoker

[Hojo]

Imagine your eyes were a display screen on a computer. Your minds processing power wasnt happening inside of a brain it was actually happening somewhere else like Ram in a computer. Your mind has memory where is is coming from? We make up that its coming from a brain the brains take place on a display, what we think of as brains is not physical off the monitor. Our memories and actions and algorithms are all being used from Gods infinite Harddrive, the Akashic records, not a brain and not on the display screen. Reality is completely first person and God the infinite energy of the simulation is giving you the  power to experience a life as a human. That allows yourself the ability to see that you exist forever and its a simulation via self reflection.

 

[theleelajoker]

Thanks.

Reminds me of something I heard before. Don't remember the name, sme once posted a video of him in this forum. He talked about our reality like a cockpit, we see the simulated reality but never the thing behind the 3-D cockpit. Maybe sme reads this and knows who I am talking about.

The thing with self reflection I associate with synchronicity - sometimes it's crazy how clean and how fast the reflection is.  And especially lately I have the impression that the same rule applies for KI-prompts and for my personal life: The higher the clarity of my input (= my interactions with others, less my thoughts although they play a role),  the cleaner my reflection (whatever happens to me outside my direct influence).

But it's not a formula I could apply in any way, I have no control. It just happens.

What I am missing: You being the little thing in your mind you feel when you scream in your head. Don't get that.

[Hojo]

@theleelajoker If you had a big body( the one you see in the simulation) and a subtle body and then a bliss body. The thing I am pointing too is the subtle body like before the simulation. It exists but its not part of the body at all. Its like a little worm thing going up and down with thought. If you scream in your mind you can feel it going up and down. Imagine if you die you become that thing that goes up and down with no concetp of being a human or existing but you do as that thing. You see when you use it it can create emotions in you. When it settles down you become your true form nothing when it moves there you are too.

When you learn that thats you and stop using it to react to reality you can use it to control or influence reality through rituals.

Edited Tuesday at 07:15 PM by Hojo

[theleelajoker]

OK interesting concept. Will let that sink in.

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Reminds me of something I heard before. Don't remember the name, sme once posted a video of him in this forum. He talked about our reality like a cockpit, we see the simulated reality but never the thing behind the 3-D cockpit. Maybe sme reads this and knows who I am talking about.

Probably Donald Hoffman or possibly Daniel Dennett or Anil Seth.

Being an AI is just the modern version of Rene Descartes "Evil Demon", an all powerful entity that creates a deceptive reality for us, and try as we might we can never be certain that we're not being deceived. We can't have "certain knowledge" about anything at all. On the face of it your question has no clear answer.

Then again, the only AI is the AI we have now, and it's taken 70 odd years to get here, and it's very clear that it's nowhere near the level of capability to simulate our reality. So if you're basing your question on our current AI (anything else is a fantasy), then no, we're not AI.

The problem with these sorts of questions is that you have to find the "Evil Demon" or catch him out, to prove or disprove the question. You may as well replace the word "AI" with "God", it's the same difference.

[Yimpa]

Just now, LastThursday said:

You may as well replace the word "AI" with "God", it's the same difference.

Absolute Intelligence

Edited Tuesday at 09:34 PM by Yimpa

[The Renaissance Man]

@theleelajoker I honestly don't know if I am an AI. I could seriously be, from my current experience.

But I also have no experience into the reality of consciousness. So I don't even know what my consciousness is. I don't know what "I" am directly, what this awareness is, so any possibility could be true, including being an AI.

In theory if I experience the nature of consciousness directly, I will know for sure what consciousness is, thus knowing if I'm an AI.

Edited Tuesday at 10:27 PM by The Renaissance Man

[theleelajoker]

10 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Probably Donald Hoffman or possibly Daniel Dennett or Anil Seth.

Being an AI is just the modern version of Rene Descartes "Evil Demon", an all powerful entity that creates a deceptive reality for us, and try as we might we can never be certain that we're not being deceived. We can't have "certain knowledge" about anything at all. On the face of it your question has no clear answer.

Then again, the only AI is the AI we have now, and it's taken 70 odd years to get here, and it's very clear that it's nowhere near the level of capability to simulate our reality. So if you're basing your question on our current AI (anything else is a fantasy), then no, we're not AI.

 

• It just came to me - the guy I was talking about is Bernardo Kastrup.
• You talk about the AI we created in ~ 70 years and that this is not yet good enough. I agree.  What I rather talk about is that how the mind works and how our current AI works has similar principles. How algorithms are trained by data and learning techniques to learn r.g. idioms, logic, reasoning, associations etc. Only humans do it with much more complexity (for now). More specific:
  • Learning through reinforcement for algorithms with reward / punishment. Human: pleasure vs. pain, acceptance and peacefulness vs. bad conscience etc.
  • Supervised learning with "actions / conclusion is right/wrong. For humans, culture, society, parents etc are the corrective element for our human "software".E.g. a time ago, I saw a kid ask a man "why do u have such a big nose" and the mother instantaneously said "no! you don't ask that"
  • Unsupervised learning: We humans do the same - making our own conclusions, take assumptions based on our experiences and our own data set. It may even applies to human emotions (theory of constructed emotions). And OFTEN horribly wrong, same as KI creates hallucinations. Anil Seth, Paul Watzlawik, Lisa Barret Feldman are great sources for everyone that wants to dig deeper into these things on the human side

Quote

The problem with these sorts of questions is that you have to find the "Evil Demon" or catch him out, to prove or disprove the question. You may as well replace the word "AI" with "God", it's the same difference.

Yes, exactly! So why do some people think "oh I am God" or "I am consciousness" or "I am simply a self-learning algorithm" etc etc.?

I agree we can never know  - so for me it's simply a questions of believe. Everybody has different background, different life, different experiences so believes are gonna be different. That's what I am curios about

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

What I rather talk about is that how the mind works and how our current AI works has similar principles. How algorithms are trained by data and learning techniques to learn r.g. idioms, logic, reasoning, associations etc. Only humans do it with much more complexity (for now). More specific:

It's no coincidence. AI is made in our image. What the technologists are hell bent on doing is creating a facsimile of a human. Why? Because machines are tireless, don't complain and don't get ill.  But we are also intrinsically fascinated by ourselves, it is an indulgence for men to create a person from wires and electricity and pure logic.

 

[Yimpa]

Wrong, I am AI Green *smokes a joint*

 

[theleelajoker]

9 hours ago, LastThursday said:

It's no coincidence. AI is made in our image. What the technologists are hell bent on doing is creating a facsimile of a human. Why? Because machines are tireless, don't complain and don't get ill.  But we are also intrinsically fascinated by ourselves, it is an indulgence for men to create a person from wires and electricity and pure logic.

 

Yes, and maybe we are already the facsimile of the "humans one level above". And so on and so on to infinity...

Has anyone ever watched "Le Deuxieme Acte"? One of my favorite movies and 100% fitting the context.

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:05 PM by theleelajoker

[Breakingthewall]

For a big difference: I am infinite, a AI is finite. My mind that is running, the current experience, is finite and is very similar to AI, but its substrate, from which it flows, is the infinite source, and its facets are coordinated with the infinite fractal that is total reality in motion.

chatgpt's AI has limits, you have no limits. You are not the data or the ability to process that data, but within you is contained the total infinity, and at the same time you are contained in the total infinity. AI does not have an unfathomable bottom, at least for now, in the future, who knows. For now it's just a machine, it's not the infinite being, it's inside of our experience, it's not an experience. The infinite being is not experiencing itself through the AI, it is not you, it is in you. 

Edited Thursday at 08:21 PM by Breakingthewall

[vibv]

Because I'm the real deal  Artificial suggests that someone has constructed it. That which I am has no creator outside of itself.