What is the point of torture if it "doesn't work"?

[Nemra]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it exists.

Sodium thiopental, Amyl nitrite, and Scopolamine. 

Scopolamine is crazy powerful. People reveal their ATM pin codes.

That just proves that torturers are doing it for the pleasure of it.

Why would you choose torture if there is another method?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nemra said:

That just proves that torturers are doing it for the pleasure of it.

Why would you choose torture if there is another method?

Well, I'm not sure how reliable truth chemicals are. Probably spotty.

[AION]

It doesn't matter if it works or not. People tend to do stuff that doesn't work all the time. Torture is just a phenomenon of a certain state of mind. A state of mind that lacks love and empathy for the other. The torturer and torturee are the same but people who are in a hell paradigm have to learn that lesson so that is why it is happening. Torture happens where there is lack of consciousness aka lack of love.

Edited Thursday at 11:08 PM by AION

[Staples]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, I'm not sure how reliable truth chemicals are. Probably spotty.

People aren't sharp enough to get facts straight sober most of the time anyway.

Funny - a 'truth serum' is only be as effective as the mind you give it to.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Staples said:

Funny - a 'truth serum' is only be as effective as the mind you give it to.

The one time it's good to be deluded.

If you give Trump truth serum, all you get back is more bullshit.

Edited Friday at 12:18 AM by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not true.

The problem with this logic is that it assumes you got the right guy. But if you get the wrong guy -- who doesn't know anything -- the more you torture him, the more lies he will invent to get you to stop.

This actually happened with CIA torture programs in the Bush era. The wrong guys were snatched and assumed to be terrorists. But they weren't. And torturing them only made them invent lies which misled the CIA.

Again, this is a failure of basic epistemology. You don't know what others know. Your assumptions about who knows what can be very wrong. Torturing someone assumes you know what they're supposed to know.

I guess that a good professional should find out after a while if the guy knows or doesn't know. Of course there will be mistakes but many times you will get real information.

Another reason for torturing is scaring your enemies, and that's works . In ancient times, torture was used primarily as a deterrent, all civilizations and tribes did it, I suppose because it worked well. If you saw a guy impaled for having done something, you thought that you didn't want to be in his place. 

To obtain information, for example, about Pinochet's detention centers. They wanted to know the ramifications of the supposed communists in order to eliminate this supposed danger to them, and they achieved their goal with torture. Of course many innocents died in the way, but for them that wasn't a problem in comparison with the benefits 

Edited Friday at 05:30 AM by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not true.

The problem with this logic is that it assumes you got the right guy. But if you get the wrong guy -- who doesn't know anything -- the more you torture him, the more lies he will invent to get you to stop.

This actually happened with CIA torture programs in the Bush era. The wrong guys were snatched and assumed to be terrorists. But they weren't. And torturing them only made them invent lies which misled the CIA.

Again, this is a failure of basic epistemology. You don't know what others know. Your assumptions about who knows what can be very wrong. Torturing someone assumes you know what they're supposed to know.

Key to torture is to know a thousand things about him that he doesn't know you know.

Like a journal or social media or emails or texts. Most importantly his internet usage and his search history and his sexual peccadillos. 

Also stuff from his partner and his children.

You mix in questions about what you know for sure to be true and what you want to know for sure to be true.

This is the way to break someone into becoming an open book.

Most value their life as much as they value their wife.

Most have damning secrets in their closet making them breakable.

Edited Friday at 11:42 AM by gettoefl

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, AION said:

It doesn't matter if it works or not. People tend to do stuff that doesn't work all the time. Torture is just a phenomenon of a certain state of mind. A state of mind that lacks love and empathy for the other. The torturer and torturee are the same but people who are in a hell paradigm have to learn that lesson so that is why it is happening. Torture happens where there is lack of consciousness aka lack of love.

Torture is actually kindness.

I am working with you on this.

We are on the same team.

That being truth,

You just need some help seeing the light.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Key to torture is to know a thousand things about him that he doesn't know you know.

Like a journal or social media or emails or texts. Most importantly his internet usage and his search history and his sexual peccadillos. 

Also stuff from his partner and his children.

You mix in questions about what you know for sure to be true and what you want to know for sure to be true.

This is the way to break someone into becoming an open book.

Most value their life as much as they value their wife.

Most have damning secrets in their closet making them breakable.

Mmmkay....

I don't want to know how you know this.

FYI, they torture random Arabs they grabs off the streets. You're not gonna have journals or wife.

Edited Friday at 11:57 AM by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mmmkay....

I don't want to know how you know this.

FYI, they torture random Arabs they grabs off the streets. You're not gonna have journals or wife.

Yes to torture willy-nilly is is to put yourself and your country in a worse hole than before.

This will only entrench your enemies desires to annihilate you.

If you torture to the appropriate end, it is a supreme tool for ending hostilities.

You can be rid of the bad and the truth comes to the fore.

I would say that many wars are due to the ignorance of misunderstanding your foes.

For example, the US has a paltry understanding of the Chinese and that makes the world a very dangerous place right now.

[AION]

30 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Torture is actually kindness.

I am working with you on this.

We are on the same team.

That being truth,

You just need some help seeing the light.

We are all sadistic in some way. Towards others or ourselves. And that is ok.  Just be sure you are not the receiving end. 🤭

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, AION said:

We are all sadistic in some way. Towards others or ourselves. And that is ok.  Just be sure you are not the receiving end. 🤭

No sadism or suffering is mandatory, my friend.

If you want me to beat you, I can however oblige.