The wise choice of quitting spirituality all together.

[5-D - L O V E]

First of all, assuming everyone here has a atleast some understanding of god as being absolute infinity, for "you" to begin, absolute infinity has to end, and by definition that a is a contradiction, absolute infinity permeates everything, so "you" never exisisted, in that sense, from god's pov, solipsism is the only reality, there's only one reality and one experiencer, and they are the same, no you to be found in this picture, of course the ego would beg to differ, but that's not true

 

As for sanity and insanity, in the absolute sense they don't matter, what we refer to as sanity from our egoic experience is just an oversimplification of reality based on beliefs and patterns, awakening feels more like insanity (from our day to day understanding) than sanity, if you open the flood gates of experiences and surrender to it all, you will go insane, reality is that chaotic and beyond, "chaos" can be experienced to an extent that would make wish to die, and you will (temporarily hopefully) but then the ego's desire to come back will put a limit to god (or we could say god would put that limit as an act of mercy) for you to come back and have some chance at regular survival, carrying out a "normal" exsistence, but once this is perceived, you will forever be permeated and prone to some kind of fluidity that aligns more with truth than with survival

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, Moon said:

Surrendering such limitations can aid in greater channelling of infinite intelligence and thus a more effortless flow of truth revelations.

To act like the difficulties of truthseeking are a mere "limitation" - It's only possible to say this if you haven't gone all the way.

Going all the way means facing absolute annihilation head-on, and leaping off the sheer cliff of consciousness with tears streaking down your face while everything you've ever known and loved turns to sand and dust, and then some more.

Real, deep, sincere Consciousness and Truth is traumatic. Because it is the antithesis of YOU. This is not something you willy-nilly "surrender" to while "flowing in abundance and joy." You can only effortlessly prance around while sheltered in a walled garden (consensus reality, human society, sanity). The moment the walls collapse, the dam breaks, the water comes rushing in and you begin to physically and tangibly drown, which cannot be played off by "effortless flow."

Surrender to Truth is the hardest thing you will ever do. By definition, it must be this way. Because Truth is EVERYTHING. And Truth is especially all the experiences you hold at an arm's distance. 

For example, you don't want to get raped or tortured. You don't want to be mutilated or scarred or violated or degraded or oppressed or shamed. You reject violence and cruelty and injustice and unfairness. You're not willing to lose your mind and spend an eternity alone. You're not willing to be physically stranded in the Atlantic ocean at night by yourself with nothing to hold onto and only the great unknown stretching endlessly beneath you. You're not willing to be naked in the cold, you're not willing to have cancer, you're not willing to be born deformed and ostracized. You're not willing to watch your mom turn into fish who gets cut up for someone else's meal. you're not willing to end your life to turn into a worm who lives its whole life in the soil, only to crawl to the surface one day and wither up in the harsh sunlight. You're not willing to live through Auschwitz as a Jew or factory farms as a pig. You're not emotionally ready give up your life, and to instead live through the entire life of Hitler, down to every last detail - personally architecting a genocide. Real surrender means living through things you cannot surrender to. Real surrender means to BE in all its rawness, even as you kick and scream and beg for it to end. Real surrender means taking a shit thinking you're sitting on a toilet, but then the poop that comes out your asshole ends up in your mouth, and you become a perpetual motion machine as the poop you swallow comes out of your asshole and back into your mouth in a loop for eternity. Real surrender means the absolute end of the universe, forever, no going back, and you forge forward without looking back.

You think all of this is easy peasy handled overnight?

Now obviously I'm using really extreme language to stir the imagination. But why stress all this cruelty and grotesque imagery? Am I not just making all this shit up and over complicating things? Maybe you're right, and I'm just making things needlessly hard? After all, it's much easier to forget all of this nonsense and to live a simple joyful life of abundance and flow.

Or, maybe CONSCIOUSNESS IS INFINITE, and YOU ARE CONSCIOUSNESS, which means YOU ARE INFINITE, which means you are necessarily and absolutely ALL POSSIBILITIES, which means you MUST be everything listed above, and so much more (and so much worse!) and if you think you're going to "effortlessly flow" your way through all of that, you are not serious about this work at all...

[RendHeaven]

28 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Pretty much agree. 

You just know it's a challenge to Leo's ego.

So this question is a trap to lure one into semantics and rehetoric.

Or, people just don't know what they're talking about. 

And this is a litmus test, for your own benefit.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Or, people just don't know what they're talking about. 

And this is a litmus test, for your own benefit.

Hard disagree.

If there was some use in this mental masturbation, a genuine push for insight would be the goal.

How tf will anyone learn or grow with no answer.

Leo has some great things to say.

His ego just sometimes takes hold of him completely & he runs with it.

One should always seriously reflect on what they are trying to communicate.

[RendHeaven]

12 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Hard disagree.

If there was some use in this mental masturbation, a genuine push for insight would be the goal.

How tf will anyone learn or grow with no answer.

Leo has some great things to say.

His ego just sometimes takes hold of him completely & he runs with it.

One should always seriously reflect on what they are trying to communicate.

I understand your frustration, especially given that (I assume) you identify more with feminine energies, which means you thrive and grow through affirmation.

As a masculine guy, we thrive and grow through challenge (imagine rams locking horns and butting heads), which can appear unnecessary, stressful, or even counterproductive from the feminine POV.

It's an energy preference.

Personally, I did not read Leo as being egoic here at all.

Right now the situation is like a math student arguing with a calculus professor but the student hasn't even gone through algebra 1 yet. 

The calculus professor then says, "alright, explain calculus to me. I'm not giving you any answers. If your study is legit, then we'll talk. But if it turns out you're full of hot air, then I'm simply not going to keep arguing with you, I have too much self respect to entertain your bluster"

This is completely fair from the masculine POV. Has nothing to do with Leo's ego, it's just basic pragmatism. We have limited time and energy, so we don't have time to coddle fools

Now, the feminine might have its own solution to this student-professor dilemma, like it may want to extend empathy and affirmation to the student and be more understanding and patient.

[RendHeaven]

52 minutes ago, TruthFreedom said:

Easy.

Sanity is seeing the Truth.

Insanity is Lies.

A web of lies can lead to Sanity. And the Truth can reveal Insanity.

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, RendHeaven said:

I understand your frustration, especially given that (I assume) you identify more with feminine energies, which means you thrive and grow through affirmation.

As a masculine guy, we thrive and grow through challenge (imagine rams locking horns and butting heads), which can appear unnecessary, stressful, or even counterproductive from the feminine POV.

It's an energy preference.

Personally, I did not read Leo as being egoic here at all.

Right now the situation is like a math student arguing with a calculus professor but the student hasn't even gone through algebra 1 yet. 

The calculus professor then says, "alright, explain calculus to me. I'm not giving you any answers. If your study is legit, then we'll talk. But if it turns out you're full of hot air, then I'm simply not going to keep arguing with you, I have too much self respect to entertain your bluster"

This is completely fair from the masculine POV. Has nothing to do with Leo's ego, it's just basic pragmatism. We have limited time and energy, so we don't have time to coddle fools

Now, the feminine might have its own solution to this student-professor dilemma, like it may want to extend empathy and affirmation to the student and be more understanding and patient.

Sounds to me like: Generalizing. Projecting. Lots of concepts. not much substance.

I am a man, I feel very good about my masculine energy and I learn through infinite ways. I teach professionally and I see men learn through an infinity of ways. I see women learn though an infinity of ways.

These whole masculine/feminine things seems to me like an excuse to behave a certain way, to justify one's one behavior instead of truly being present, truly seeing context, truly recognizing the individuality of each person, situation and moment. I guess stems from the fact that Leo is/was big with the pick-up scene and these kind of mindset also attracts certain kind of followers.

Edited 7 hours ago by theleelajoker

[Nemra]

@Someone here, I don't know about you, but I'm glad that I did take a risk to travel and try it at least once.

It is worth a lot even if I understood a tiny bit of that experience.

Now, it's a bit disappointing that I won't get into that state naturally but it sure is a huge motivation to change my situation.

Edited 7 hours ago by Nemra

[Vibes]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

@Leo Gura Sanity is construction. You construct / conditioned your identity as a human and have everything figured out in a very limited and organized way, you think you know what all the things around you are, you think you know that what science has told you is reality, and you think you know what you are. Insanity is deconstruction, you don't have a firm ground anymore. Forms morphing and you can't pin yourself in anything, you are in angry open sea being carried around.

Edited 7 hours ago by Vibes

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

I understand your frustration, especially given that (I assume) you identify more with feminine energies, which means you thrive and grow through affirmation.

As a masculine guy, we thrive and grow through challenge (imagine rams locking horns and butting heads), which can appear unnecessary, stressful, or even counterproductive from the feminine POV.

It's an energy preference.

Personally, I did not read Leo as being egoic here at all.

Right now the situation is like a math student arguing with a calculus professor but the student hasn't even gone through algebra 1 yet. 

The calculus professor then says, "alright, explain calculus to me. I'm not giving you any answers. If your study is legit, then we'll talk. But if it turns out you're full of hot air, then I'm simply not going to keep arguing with you, I have too much self respect to entertain your bluster"

This is completely fair from the masculine POV. Has nothing to do with Leo's ego, it's just basic pragmatism. We have limited time and energy, so we don't have time to coddle fools

Now, the feminine might have its own solution to this student-professor dilemma, like it may want to extend empathy and affirmation to the student and be more understanding and patient.

No. 

Nothing to do with negative / positive packaging. 

Nothing to do with feminine / masculine. Forget I am a woman, don't assume anything about my preferences 

Basic feedback. 

How can you grow if you have no idea you are a potato? 

Where did you get the idea - I - need affirmation? 

I didn't say anything about conveying the answer in rainbows and butterflies. 

An answer is necessary to teaching, especially when the question implies there is one, and it's some sort of shittest. Or at least correction/guidance in lieu of an answer 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Generalizing

Of course

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Projecting

You're the one in a knot over Leo's challenge, not me.

[RendHeaven]

21 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

An answer is necessary to teaching

Right, but the teacher reserves the right to stay silent - and yes, judge - until the student proves himself capable of a more earnest heart to heart.

The student doesn't get to demand answers or accuse the teacher of being "egoic" when considering the larger dynamic.

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

I’ll take a shot at it.

Sanity is a particularized state of consciousness characterized by internal coherence. It is generated by the sum total and interconnection of rules, memory and consistency within the experience. Because sanity is local to that state of consciousness, it does not need to hold outside that state. Sanity is useful for creating certain kinds of experiences and must necessarily exist and be imagined within the infinity of Mind.

Insanity is also a state of consciousness, characterized by a lack of internal coherence. It is a loosening of said rules and interconnections. Taken all the way, insanity is unlimited Mind, unbound by all constraints.

Insanity is not conducive for most creatures and normal human experience. Because it of this and because it is fundamentally a different state of consciousness, it must be experienced to be truly understood.

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Of course

You're the one in a knot over Leo's challenge, not me.

What a good boy you are!

 

[Eskilon]

9 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

For example, you don't want to get raped or tortured. You don't want to be mutilated or scarred or violated or degraded or oppressed or shamed. You reject violence and cruelty and injustice and unfairness. You're not willing to lose your mind and spend an eternity alone. You're not willing to be physically stranded in the Atlantic ocean at night by yourself with nothing to hold onto and only the great unknown stretching endlessly beneath you. You're not willing to be naked in the cold, you're not willing to have cancer, you're not willing to be born deformed and ostracized. You're not willing to watch your mom turn into fish who gets cut up for someone else's meal. you're not willing to end your life to turn into a worm who lives its whole life in the soil, only to crawl to the surface one day and wither up in the harsh sunlight. You're not willing to live through Auschwitz as a Jew or factory farms as a pig. You're not emotionally ready give up your life, and to instead live through the entire life of Hitler, down to every last detail - personally architecting a genocide. Real surrender means living through things you cannot surrender to. Real surrender means to BE in all its rawness, even as you kick and scream and beg for it to end. Real surrender means taking a shit thinking you're sitting on a toilet, but then the poop that comes out your asshole ends up in your mouth, and you become a perpetual motion machine as the poop you swallow comes out of your asshole and back into your mouth in a loop for eternity. Real surrender means the absolute end of the universe, forever, no going back, and you forge forward without looking back.

Yeah Truth is all that, but Truth is also infinite orgasm, infinite goodneess and infinite benevolence. So in the end you will not just experience all the "negative"(from the ego's point of view) stuff, you will experience all the goodnees(again from the ego's point of view) too. I know you making your point to say that Truth is not just rainbows and butteflies, but it also not just hell and suffering. And honestly all this conversation is still limited from consciousness point of view, no human will ever fully comprehend consciousness and talk about it using dualistic language. That's why it's better to avoid talking about the absolute.