The wise choice of quitting spirituality all together.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

I mean 

If solipsism is true does it mean radical non duality a la Parsons, Newman etc. isn’t true and vice versa? Are they opposed?

Jim and Parsons don't have a "teaching"..as I'm sure you've heard them saying that often . Solipsism says you are the whole shebang..while They say there isn't "you" in the first place . Their point of view is higher than just a school of thought or a philosophy like Solipsism..

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Someone here said:

Jim and Parsons don't have a "teaching"..as I'm sure you've heard them saying that often . Solipsism says you are the whole shebang..while They say there isn't "you" in the first place . Their point of view is higher than just a school of thought or a philosophy like Solipsism..

Agreed

Imo solipsism is still "in the story"

While the other thing is beyond it.

Although i’ve had some solipsism experiences on mushrooms and such and it was great.

[Leo Gura]

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Edited March 10 by Leo Gura

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

I don't know Leo. It's a fascinating and deep question. What is Insanity and what is sanity? 

What comes to mind is that sanity is consensus reality agreed by culture and society.

Insanity is the breakdown of mental barriers. A paradoxical collapse of dualistic perception. The distinction between opposites blur causing a mental collapse. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have had a breakthrough on LSD that caused me to panic, reality was inside me and I couldn't tell the difference between real and unreal.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have had a breakthrough on LSD that caused me to panic, reality was inside me and I couldn't tell the difference between real and unreal.

That’s a feature and a bug!

[Leo Gura]

I will not give an answer. Instead I will use the question to test who understands Consciousness and who doesn't.

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

Give ratings of answers 1-10

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Give ratings of answers 1-10

My ratings are outside the box. Phenomenal, breaking records. Never been done before 

[ExploringReality]

Sanity is a constructive continuity of mind. Insanity is deconstruction, No boundaries. A direct Metaphysical confrontation.

 

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Insanity is when your mind has no base to ground itself anymore, like core beliefs. Its therefore not limited anymore and this is insanity because you don't know the difference between up or down, good or bad, who is who, etc and are free to imagine total new disturbing things.

Sanity is opposite of course, when you have some solid foundation in core beliefs and a functional structure of your ego mind so it cannot be lost in its own mind so easy because of these limits which keep you in check.

[ExploringReality]

Sanity is a fluid pattern of distinctions, categories and sense of identity. A sense of physical reality. It is your belief in a physical reality. 

[theleelajoker]

Quote

If you think you will master this work -- the human system and mind -- through anything less than decades of serious and difficult work, you are kidding yourself.

(...)

The suffering in this work is real and serious. This is the most difficult work that a human being could do. Which is why virtually nobody goes all the way. If you expect it to be quick, simple, or easy, I promise you will fail.

First quote by @Leo Gura

I believe he absolutely has a point. My personal experiences definitely resonates with this. It's a long process, it's layer after layer, step by step and it's probably life-long and repeating in cycles. It is difficult work, very few people start, fewer continue and without effort and will, also will to suffer, you probably stop along the way without reaching certain benefits.

 

Quote

As long as your mind is seeking in this way.. it won't lead you anywhere..because you're chasing something that you think doesn't already exist at this moment. And this fundamentally means you will never be awake. So long as you think this moment is not enough.. You will keep seeking the next one and the next one.. And you will never be awake . When you Allow everything to just be as it is.

(...)

All states are temporary. They come and go. If awakening was a state.. It would be temporary..And it would not be worth "getting" since you can't "get it" anyway. 

Second quote by @Someone here

I believe he absolutely has a point. My personal experiences definitely resonates with this. It's so simple it's almost ridiculous. It's just here. Breathe, observe, just experience the moment with (ideally) zero resistance.  It's sometimes up, it's sometimes down, there is no final state because everything is just passing and arising. Enjoy the show.

My view:

• Mind want's to categorize, to make a final statement, judgement
• But both can be true if I am not following the parameters of logical mind (isn't that one of the central intentions of Zen koans?)
• I don't understand these discussions - argumentation what is this and what is that, who is better and more spiritual and so son here in this forum
• Integration of different perspectives > superiority of one perspective. Less measuring of intellectual or spiritual dick sizes, more working together
• # ambiguity tolerance

[theleelajoker]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will not give an answer. Instead I will use the question to test who understands Consciousness and who doesn't.

Sometimes I am really impressed by your posts, your honesty and your way of seeing and expressing things.

Sometimes I am incredible disappointed. 

Really, now you are judge of understanding, using a question about language definition on a forum?

First, the test itself is shitty. Made-up words and you are the king of language, the king of understanding to tell what these words mean?

Second, the sheer fact that you feel to prove your apparent superiority by a "test" like this? My take is that with more maturity, you would not even think of testing and judging people like this.

[TruthFreedom]

Easy.

Sanity is seeing the Truth.

Insanity is Lies.

[OBEler]

@theleelajoker I think you must consider the context Leo said this. I think he just meant that people here are so confident about their spiritual development that they throw out bold statements about deep topics . However if they not even can answer what's meant with sanity vs insanity they should be more humbled.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

36 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Sometimes I am really impressed by your posts, your honesty and your way of seeing and expressing things.

Sometimes I am incredible disappointed. 

Really, now you are judge of understanding, using a question about language definition on a forum?

First, the test itself is shitty. Made-up words and you are the king of language, the king of understanding to tell what these words mean?

Second, the sheer fact that you feel to prove your apparent superiority by a "test" like this? My take is that with more maturity, you would not even think of testing and judging people like this.

Pretty much agree. 

You just know it's a challenge to Leo's ego.

So this question is a trap to lure one into semantics and rehetoric.

 

[Vynce]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Sanity is all the states that appear predictable and coherent with your assumptions about reality.

Insanity is all the states that appear to follow no apparent predictable structure and don't bow to any preformed notion of reality.

[theleelajoker]

32 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@theleelajoker I think you must consider the context Leo said this. I think he just meant that people here are so confident about their spiritual development that they throw out bold statements about deep topics . However if they not even can answer what's meant with sanity vs insanity they should be more humbled.

1.,There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. Only subjective definitions. 

2. What are the chances you can "force" humbling on people like that?

What are the chances you create more resistance, more conflict, doing more harm than good?

Even if this is the intention - the method IMO is not only questionable but highly ineffective. What would be a good method for me?

• Accepting. People write these bold statements and all you do is saying:  "OK".
• Or not saying anything at all. Silence. If they are as developed as they think, let them have their experiences. Life will prove them "right" or "wrong"
• Asking questions that are not proving my (Leo's) apparent superiority, but are constructive
• ....

There are others ways, but we are limited in the context of this forum.

I see the question as it is as a flawed ego-move and a trap like Natasha Tori Maru said. Let's see if there are lemmings walking into it

Edited March 10 by theleelajoker

[5-D - L O V E]

First of all, assuming everyone here has a atleast some understanding of god as being absolute infinity, for "you" to begin, absolute infinity has to end, and by definition that a is a contradiction, absolute infinity permeates everything, so "you" never exisisted, in that sense, from god's pov, solipsism is the only reality, there's only one reality and one experiencer, and they are the same, no you to be found in this picture, of course the ego would beg to differ, but that's not true

 

As for sanity and insanity, in the absolute sense they don't matter, what we refer to as sanity from our egoic experience is just an oversimplification of reality based on beliefs and patterns, awakening feels more like insanity (from our day to day understanding) than sanity, if you open the flood gates of experiences and surrender to it all, you will go insane, reality is that chaotic and beyond, "chaos" can be experienced to an extent that would make wish to die, and you will (temporarily hopefully) but then the ego's desire to come back will put a limit to god (or we could say god would put that limit as an act of mercy) for you to come back and have some chance at regular survival, carrying out a "normal" exsistence, but once this is perceived, you will forever be permeated and prone to some kind of fluidity that aligns more with truth than with survival

[RendHeaven]

3 hours ago, Moon said:

Surrendering such limitations can aid in greater channelling of infinite intelligence and thus a more effortless flow of truth revelations.

To act like the difficulties of truthseeking are a mere "limitation" - It's only possible to say this if you haven't gone all the way.

Going all the way means facing absolute annihilation head-on, and leaping off the sheer cliff of consciousness with tears streaking down your face while everything you've ever known and loved turns to sand and dust, and then some more.

Real, deep, sincere Consciousness and Truth is traumatic. Because it is the antithesis of YOU. This is not something you willy-nilly "surrender" to while "flowing in abundance and joy." You can only effortlessly prance around while sheltered in a walled garden (consensus reality, human society, sanity). The moment the walls collapse, the dam breaks, the water comes rushing in and you begin to physically and tangibly drown, which cannot be played off by "effortless flow."

Surrender to Truth is the hardest thing you will ever do. By definition, it must be this way. Because Truth is EVERYTHING. And Truth is especially all the experiences you hold at an arm's distance. 

For example, you don't want to get raped or tortured. You don't want to be mutilated or scarred or violated or degraded or oppressed or shamed. You reject violence and cruelty and injustice and unfairness. You're not willing to lose your mind and spend an eternity alone. You're not willing to be physically stranded in the Atlantic ocean at night by yourself with nothing to hold onto and only the great unknown stretching endlessly beneath you. You're not willing to be naked in the cold, you're not willing to have cancer, you're not willing to be born deformed and ostracized. You're not willing to watch your mom turn into fish who gets cut up for someone else's meal. you're not willing to end your life to turn into a worm who lives its whole life in the soil, only to crawl to the surface one day and wither up in the harsh sunlight. You're not willing to live through Auschwitz as a Jew or factory farms as a pig. You're not emotionally ready give up your life, and to instead live through the entire life of Hitler, down to every last detail - personally architecting a genocide. Real surrender means living through things you cannot surrender to. Real surrender means to BE in all its rawness, even as you kick and scream and beg for it to end. Real surrender means taking a shit thinking you're sitting on a toilet, but then the poop that comes out your asshole ends up in your mouth, and you become a perpetual motion machine as the poop you swallow comes out of your asshole and back into your mouth in a loop for eternity. Real surrender means the absolute end of the universe, forever, no going back, and you forge forward without looking back.

You think all of this is easy peasy handled overnight?

Now obviously I'm using really extreme language to stir the imagination. But why stress all this cruelty and grotesque imagery? Am I not just making all this shit up and over complicating things? Maybe you're right, and I'm just making things needlessly hard? After all, it's much easier to forget all of this nonsense and to live a simple joyful life of abundance and flow.

Or, maybe CONSCIOUSNESS IS INFINITE, and YOU ARE CONSCIOUSNESS, which means YOU ARE INFINITE, which means you are necessarily and absolutely ALL POSSIBILITIES, which means you MUST be everything listed above, and so much more (and so much worse!) and if you think you're going to "effortlessly flow" your way through all of that, you are not serious about this work at all...